Gurston Down attendance

[woodman]

Mark , although I agree with your comment I feel the MSA has put up a brick wall and locked out all the casual competitors with all the rule changes over the last few years , especially ROPS, tyres, hans, etc. So no matter what the SSOT do they are limited by the winkers at the MSA

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

Sorry I'm late to the party there are a few points that are made here let me address some:- and give you an insight into the conversations/discusions we have.

We are too northern!

The northern/southern bias; we send a survey out to all drivers last year and we have been accused of being too northern and also too southern in the same breath as we have no Scottish events.

We have too many events/ too few events!

The calendar was extended to approx. 37 events last season to see if it improved the numbers this didn''t happen. Question By increasing the events we do we thin the field and reduce "the craic"  that we are famous for. Also when we had 2 sets of times for novices and experts and then with 32 events and then 8 classes 2x8x32 is 512 (times) which was part of the reason for merging the target times for novice and expert; we then decided that more focus on the awards night be made for the novices.

Question: So taking it to the extremes do we reduce to 20 events and then have a big turn out? what is the perfect number? 15 hills & 15 sprint?

We are too expert focused and don't want a novice to win!

This is why in this years regs we tried to make more focus on novice awards

The SSOT is not representive of my views

Then if you feel that then please let me know, please remember I can't please everyone all the time. but we actually do want to make the speed series last another 21 years.

Other Points

Nick is right as a sport we are struggling as you cant take a stock Westfield and enter the speed series because of the rules imposed by the MSA.

We have looked at not being part of the MSA or running a separate series (personally I'm not insured if I race under anything that is not msa approved. as I had to declare it on the insurance form) this has been agenda point for the last 2 seasons and both occasions it was decided not to change.

So what do I need?

A healthy debate and conversation, we have not edited, censored or  hidden any posts so far, please do not get personal

I think by letting this thread ride you will see the problems the members have trying to do the best for you, Please remember we are all volunteers, unlike some events/series where the person doing it is a full time/part time job.

what are our Objectives

please see

 

 

Many Thanks

 

 

John "Panda" Williams

johnpdwilliams@hotmail.com

 

 

 

  

 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

3 hours ago, woodman said:

Mark , although I agree with your comment I feel the MSA has put up a brick wall and locked out all the casual competitors with all the rule changes over the last few years , especially ROPS, tyres, hans, etc. So no matter what the SSOT do they are limited by the winkers at the MSA

Time will tell, but with David Richards taking over at the MSA, there have been some indications of a desire to considering relaxing regulations where appropriate, so we will see. 

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

13 minutes ago, Nick - Joint North East AO said:

Time will tell, but with David Richards taking over at the MSA, there have been some indications of a desire to considering relaxing regulations where appropriate, so we will see. 

@Nick - Joint North East AO do you know if they still are  considering getting rid of p2 as was suggested at anglsey last year?

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Just now, John Williams - WSCC Competition Secretary said:

@Nick - Joint North East AO do you know if they still are  considering getting rid of p2 as was suggested at anglsey last year?

That has been discussed and a suggested change in going through the due process. So will be out for consultation in due course.

[XTR2Turbo]

Is there a reason why for wscc we just do the Saturday at Gurston when it is a weekend event?  Classic Marques are there both days.  Might help increase numbers and make it a more social weekend too with a good pub just down the road.

[mark.anson]

To try and take some of the heat out of this argument, regarding Terrys original comment about Gurston being taken out of the calender.

Some folk seem to have jumped on this and assumed its going to happen. This is not necessarily the case. 

As a member of the SSOT who lives in the north, I don't often comment on the open forum but for what its worth I won't support dropping Gurston and if the invites are there I would'nt object to more hills IF that what people want. The issue of multiple events at the same venue is something that will be discussed by the SSOT during the season as that is a valid argument some people have raised.

Ultimately every event is up for review at the end of the season when the calendar is being decided but it should be obvious that the best supported events will be in less danger that those that arnt and I'm sorry folks we are never going to please all the people all of the time. All the comments that have been made will be, and are being debated by the SSOT.

Previously, competitors expressed the desire to go to new venues hence the addition of Silverstone this year, which was a difficult decision to take as it clashed with Pembrey. It was decided to go anyway as it was a new event,  made for a shorter journey for those who whinge about the travelling and was in the south just about, but mainly gave you the competitors some variety.

Now it looks like early indications are it seems like more people will still stick with going to Pembrey anyway.............so it seems we can't win.  It remains to be seen !

Also some people seem to forget though that we have to be invited to these events by the organising clubs, we can't just decide we can go somewhere if we feel like it.

Yes we can approach them and ask but those invites aren't always forthcoming, for all sorts of reasons but if the event isn't supported by the WSCC then they are less likely to invite us.... a bit chicken and egg.

The danger of folk not supporting the likes of Gurston or any event for that matter, is that if its a popular event that the organisers can fill easily and if only two WSCC go they have less incentive to invite us as a club. This only adds weight to the argument of reducing the number of events in the calendar overall to increase numbers at individual events.

The added problem of calendar clashes is another problem so we try to avoid these where possible as so it isn't always possible to go to an event without having a negative effect on another..... this Gurston/Hethel weekend being a case in point. Im sure if Hethel hadn't been on more would have gone to Gurston. I guess Pembrey/Silverstone remains to be seen

Lydden, would have been a consideration this year too but it clashed with OUR OWN EVENT at Blyton.

Prescott for example is another none starter as they're not interested from what I can gather, and I'm informed that Longton won't be invited to organise an event there again, because they had the audacity to offer more that two timed runs !!! 

So its not a simple as some people would think it is.

Like Mark Stanton has said the North/South argument has raged on since year one and has been debated to death over the years, and there is NO easy answer.

Some people seem to forget that there is East and West as well as North/South. Blyton for example is in the North but if you live in the Midlands it is much easier accessed by the M1/A1 than if you travel from the West across the M62 event though it might be geographically nearer in mileage terms .... The M25 is another story !!!!.

Spare a thought for those members in Scotland who are largely excluded from the Speed Series by virtue of lack of venues and viable travelling distance to most SS events.

I would personally like to see us return to Knockhill as we did several years ago but I fear the SSOT would be shot at dawn for even suggesting it because folk would think its too far to travel.

 

[mark.anson]

53 minutes ago, XTR2Turbo said:

Is there a reason why for wscc we just do the Saturday at Gurston when it is a weekend event?  Classic Marques are there both days.  Might help increase numbers and make it a more social weekend too with a good pub just down the road.

I don't know this for a fact David but I guess its down to the invite from the organising club.

They may have had another club who only wanted to do the Sunday only and didn't have room for us both.

We will alway try and go for a Weekend event where possible for the reasons you elude to.

Terry or John will have the definitive answer I should think

[Terry Everall]

We were not offered a weekend event at Gurston. Also at places like Harewood we are only offered one date ( take it or leave it). Please also note that Shelsley Walsh is also on same weekend in May as Anglesey so that offers an alternative event. Also we have Shelsley Walsh and 3 sisters on same weekend, Curborough and Loton Park are same weekend so we do try to balance things as best we can

We also lost Llandow as BARC Wales lost their dates due to a Corporate event trackway that earned more money for the track owners. The Snetterton date also changed due to the circuit arranging something else on that date so thats why this years event clashes with 21st year  celebrations

[phelpsa]

I understand that these things take some time, but I don't think now is the correct time to discuss removing events from the calendar. Having a varied and well spread calendar (date and location wise) is the most important aspect over and above actual attendance numbers when it comes to selling the championship. Many have been guilty of entering the championship because it would allow them to enter a certain event, then not getting around to actually doing it for a few years! Perhaps reassessing what it could be replaced with at the end of the season that would increase the variety would be a better approach (I would never be in favour of removing gurston although I haven't done the wscc round for a few years).

[mark.anson]

4 hours ago, phelpsa said:

I understand that these things take some time, but I don't think now is the correct time to discuss removing events from the calendar. Having a varied and well spread calendar (date and location wise) is the most important aspect over and above actual attendance numbers when it comes to selling the championship. Many have been guilty of entering the championship because it would allow them to enter a certain event, then not getting around to actually doing it for a few years! Perhaps reassessing what it could be replaced with at the end of the season that would increase the variety would be a better approach (I would never be in favour of removing gurston although I haven't done the wscc round for a few years).

Like I said in my earlier post don't go assuming any events including Gurston will be cut from the calender.

Next years calender hasn't been looked at yet ( and we can't set it until we know dates from the organising clubs).

We will of course be discussing it given the comments on this thread and see what we can do.

People have lept on Terry's comment about the lack of numbers at Gurston and have taken it that it's getting the chop. That is not the case, as NOTHING has been decided about ANY of the events in next years calender. 

Like Terry has confirmed we haven't had a full weekend invite from Gurston ( which we would prefer) hence only the Saturday. It's thier decision to invite us, so lack of numbers attending doesn't help the cause. Traditionally the hills are well supported and the organisers can fill them without us.

The Sprints tend to be different and the clubs will invite as many other clubs As necessary to fill the event and make it pay. 

[Scottish Bloke]

On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 14:05, BCF said:

maybe a radical shake up is the way to go?

Suggestions?

[phelpsa]

Mark, my post wasnt aimed at anyone in particular, just my own views on the ongoing discussion.

[thegunplumber]

 so not just a low turn out for gurston ,  Silverstone with only 3 so far maybe need to look to review this CIRCUIT next year eh!

[Terry Everall]

Yep Silverstone was introduced as people wanted new venues but if its only 3 attending this will need looking at. I thought it would attract a decent entry from midlands based people but seems low SS entries at the moment. I know Pembrey is on same weekend but that is a long way from anywhere