Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 I appreciate you say the replacement of chassis numbers is a problem in your market, but as has been said, it would be most helpful to see what chassis number I’d does have, as it even if it is a fake, the fake number itself may give us useful information, or let someone spot an inconsistency. Unfortunately though, what you want, to identify the age from the parts on the car itself, is nearly impossible to do with absolute certainty. Everything, repeat EVERYTHING is either replaceable or may be modified by a previous owner. Even the chassis. Some owners, for example, have modified chassis over the years, to add extra bracing, or chassis get replaced in part or in full as a result of accidents - quite legitimately. Even the factory, Westfield Sports Cars Ltd experiments from time to time with chassis redesigns and modifications - these “test” versions can occasionally crop up a year or two before the changes officially start to come on all chassis. The only normal way of proving a Westfield’s date of manufacture is the (original) chassis number, alongside supporting invoices and paperwork from the Westfield factory. I do wish you luck in your hunt though, but bear in mind, without that genuine number and paperwork, people can only ever talk in probabilities ie it’s probably 1991 or 92 etc. Quote
Mole Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 Then you wonder why we have brexit... And I don't mean our friend who is interested in this car..I mean how difficult it is to have some individuality with the cars we love so much..it has been this way for a long time!! Quote
seven7 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Posted February 10, 2018 dave, sure...everything is replaceable.....but lets only focus on the parts we see and lets declare the car "unmodified", still in original spec. / condition. from this starting line, could it be a 1991 car? in case that there are any doubts there might be a good chance that tthe local registration authorities might look a bit more into the details when this dealer arrives with a similar car in the future.... Quote
DonPeffers Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 If you've not seen the car how can you be sure the seller even has a car to sell? It could be a spoofed photo fraud. As CraigHew suggested you should first contact the previous seller in Germany. Cars like this should always come with plenty of paperwork to prove authenticity and without that walk away. Quote
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 Mine, with a 1993 chassis number, has the same rear end, the same chassis as far as I can see, but earlier windscreen pillars with no mirrors. It also has the top-mounted pedals. Pictures below show an earlier car of mine but similar registration date Q94ABL which had low mounted pillar mirrors, and my current car with retrofitted mirrors or none dependent on the picture age. Quote
seven7 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Posted February 10, 2018 5 hours ago, DonPeffers said: If you've not seen the car how can you be sure the seller even has a car to sell? It could be a spoofed photo fraud. As CraigHew suggested you should first contact the previous seller in Germany. Cars like this should always come with plenty of paperwork to prove authenticity and without that walk away. the car was offered by a dealer, who, in some cases in the past, seems to have offered cars with a different reg-dates than they came from UK. thats why i am concerned, as the car mentioned above looks in several details not like a 1991 car..and if my concerns become true it would be a case to report him to the authorities. ((forgery of dcouments, tax evasion etc) mid 1992 and onwards reg-dates cannot be re-registered outside UK with carbureteted, non-cat-ed engines. and 1991 was even an easier year in terms of noise. Quote
seven7 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Posted February 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, seven7 said: the car was offered by a dealer, who, in some cases in the past, seems to have offered cars with a different reg-dates than they came from UK. thats why i am concerned, as the car mentioned above looks in several details not like a 1991 car..and if my concerns become true it would be a case to report him to the authorities. ((forgery of dcouments, tax evasion etc) mid 1992 and onwards reg-dates cannot be re-registered outside UK with carbureteted, non-cat-ed engines. and 1991 was even an easier year in terms of noise. from what i can see: nose, bonnet, upper part of the dash, windscreen-frame with this its mirrors, pedal box ....this car is more likely and mid to end 90ies car.... Quote
wizzer Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 Sorry seven7 Just don't get it if you think its not wright look for another car .why do you have to have a pre 91 get one that passes emissions whatever the age job done Quote
Kingster Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 43 minutes ago, wizzer said: Sorry seven7 Just don't get it if you think its not wright look for another car .why do you have to have a pre 91 get one that passes emissions whatever the age job done Very different rules in Germany compared to here. Much more difficult to actually buy one unless it is pre 1991 I believe. Hence why it’s common for people to try and use an older reg on a newer car in order to sell it. Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 It’s not just emissions either, I remember when one member was aiming to take a Uk bought Westfield over, he was upgrading to a Honda S2000 engine, BUT, due to car and engine age, a cat and so weren’t enough, it also had to have an ODB port for the engine management in opted to pass TüV testing. Quote
seven7 Posted February 11, 2018 Author Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) its not about buying the car...its about keeping the community "clean" and free from dodgy cars and dealers. and as long as everybody accepting flaisficated paperwork (without reporting such cars /dealers to the authorities) it will never happen...resulting in stricter and stricter rules from the authorities for all of us...which finally we all have to take the blame. i might be totally wrong....but this car looks not like a 1991 car Edited February 11, 2018 by seven7 Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 Your aim is very commendable, but I fear without someone going and doing a close inspection of the car, not just looking at a few photographs, and searching for any paperwork, that you will not be able to achieve what you want. Even then, you will not be able to prove it’s a later car without doubt, unless you can find the correct paperwork and chassis number. What you should be able to prove is that the vin number has been tampered with, that it is either not a recognised number, or it is a cloned number - which is why so many of keep asking what it is. And that on-balance the spec of the car is unlikely to be from the year presented. Quote
seven7 Posted February 13, 2018 Author Posted February 13, 2018 the car has been sold to somebody totally new into those cars...but the car has not yet been delivered. the dealer made a tremendous profit with that car, the (possible) new owner is still thinking everthing is ok....so he isnt willing to give any details (like VIN) to somebody else Quote
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