Target Times For 2017

[graham frankland]

Target Times generate a great amount of comment and discussion because when it comes down to it they are very personal!

In fact they are a bit like INCOME TAX not liked but a suitable alternative has so far not been found!

Target Times should be considered in 2 parts

1) The Framework and Process

2) The Target Times themselves

As far as the TT Framework is concerned it suits the SS very well as we have multiple classes and multiple venues. The big downside is it is now very complex to administrate and takes a great deal of time. This is time and effort that most competitors take for granted as the results usually appear pretty dame quick after each event!

I will venture to suggest that with the lower number of competitors in 2016 WITHOUT the use of the Target Time Frameweork the SS may have ceased to operate!

As for the actual Target Times themselves the the "holy grail" of only using class/venue records is fine as long as all classes and all venues are supported in equal measure to ensure we have a fair and acceptable graduation of times across each of the classes.

This lack of graduation has become more marked in recent years as certain classes have become more popular than others resuling in some classes being much harder than others which across the competition DOES NOT tick the fair and equitable box?

This situation has been proved by the fact that in the last three years the overall championship has been won by the same class twice and once by a car that many competitors felt was not technically compliant!

The SSOT is asked on many occasions to look at the techical compliance of cars and if un-reasonable factors are found then the rules are amended to deal with the anomolies.

I would venture to suggest that based on the same thinking and spirit of the SS the 2017 Target Times are possibly the FAIREST for all the classes and venues we could come up with!

Hopefully you will see a fair graduation of times across all the classes, tyres and expert/novice driver groups!

Yes in the persuit of fairness some "records" have been increased slightly which may if conditions allow be beaten either in 2017 or some other time in the future (whereas the regs for John Hoyle's engine has been changed permanently)

We have removed "Records" that have stood un-challenged for 5 or more years and for 2017 the new event rule applies!

We have softened Novice Times slightly again this year!

We have added new venus where the New Event Rule applies for 2017!

We have modified the Conditions Rule so that if we get another wet season the wet events will be scored on a fairer basis!

There are still the odd soft times in each class!

As has been said many times we do live in an "imperfect world" but we are trying to be even handed here to bring a balance and fairness to a competition that we all want to enjoy to one level or another!

The SSOT is not sitting on its laurels either, we have set up a sub committee to consider alternative performance measurement systems that maybe able to replace our current TT system!

So please put on your constructive thinking caps and look towards the future here, any regs from other championships whose systems you like please send us details, think up your own ideas, send them to us also,but please remember the rules must cater fairly for:

             Multiple Classes

             Multiple Venues

             A SINGLE competitior running on their own possibily multiple times per season and their times must score points in the SS 

I hope this helps to clarify what we have tried to achieve for 2017!

We are running a Marketing Campaign to try attact more entrants so please do everything you can to get anyone you know to take part!

Have a Great Christmas and Look Forward to a great SS season in 2017!

Thanks

G

Have a Grea

 

[phelpsa]

Every change in regs will have intended and unintended consequences. Every time a regulation is changed the upper hand is removed from one and given to another. Next year a lot of the class H records that were set during the 'SBD era' will be dropped if they aren't broken, possibly making class H an easier class than others. Then it will happen again with class E and class D as their unbeaten records come up for renewal.

[B.RAD]

Nice and open full reply Glutey, helps me understand it a lot, thanks. 

[tkm_dave]

Thanks to Terry, Mark and Glutey for their hard work and patient work and explanations. It is apparent that all competitors owe the SSOT a massive debt of gratitude!

As a recurring problem of points scoring systems is the difficulty to get sufficient competitors in every class at every venue, has awarding bonus points or a slight points bias for certain events ever been discussed? I would assume it has but maybe some time ago or I was simply not in the right place and time for that discussion, if so what were the comments?

I understand that not every competitor can attend every event even on a condensed calendar, but if we all voted for events we wanted on the priority list at least it would be democratic. This does somewhat lead towards a fastest on the day series featuring fewer events, events that should(?!) benefit from a larger attendance and closer racing though.

Having so many eligible events is a very beneficial part of the speed series, but wanted to bring up this topic as I hadn't seen it discussed publicly before, apologies if I missed when it has. In many ways reducing the calendar would feel like a regression, but quality over quantity perhaps?

[graham frankland]

We are planning to send out a questionairre in the near future to try and address some of these issues you raise!.

Demographics of the WSCC membership, members time pressures ie speed series v family demands, holidays etc, etc,

Favourite venues,

Cost of entry, travelling and accommodation etc etc etc

Cost of competing and being competitive and so on!

We are trying to be a fully inclusive championship and we need new entrants as well as keeping our current group happy!

We don't have all the answers but we will try and gather enough info from as many members as possible to make balanced and considered decisions that will improve enjoyment and satisfaction levels of the SS.

BR

G

[Paul Aspden]

11 hours ago, graham frankland said:

......ovverall championship has been won by the same class twice and once by a car that many competitors felt was not technically compliant!

 

...........whereas the regs for John Hoyle's engine has been changed permanently)

Not sure if agree with the first statement about technical compliance, if it's the car I'm thinking of, it simply played by the rules and was therefore technically compliant.

As for the second statement, I fail to see why this reg was and is still present. To restrict a car from changing a crank in a class where there is no upper capacity limit is mad. Anyone thinking this restricts budget should think again.

 

As for the tt's, consider having class champions only, no overall champ, and you can manage that a little easier..........

 

 

 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

I think most people are missing the main point of concern and that is the decision to change properly established times with calculated ones. Surely there is only a need to use calculated times where one doesn't exist for that class to make it fair at venues for all classes. That way things will sort themselves out without any intervention and times that have previously been calculated can be replaced by real times. Or is that too simple?

[Terry Everall]

John --yes that is much too simple an approach as certain classes at certain events would remain EASY target and would not produce a level playing field. The target times have not sorted themselves out even though we have had them for several years. As we introduce new events such as the ones we have this year it will take a long time to establish true records for all classes. 

The decision to proceed with adjusted TTs based on records and comparison with others classes was taken by the SSPT for 2017. The use of pure records in 2016 threw up many anomalies and this was compounded by the large number of events that were regarded as "wet" events and scored big points. My role and Graham Franklands has been to fairly implement the agreed system which we believe we have done to the best of our ability and without favouritism. Only "time" (excuse the pun) will tell us how successful we have been. Lets hope we have a great season.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

11 hours ago, terry everall said:

John --yes that is much too simple an approach as certain classes at certain events would remain EASY target and would not produce a level playing field. The target times have not sorted themselves out even though we have had them for several years. As we introduce new events such as the ones we have this year it will take a long time to establish true records for all classes. 

The decision to proceed with adjusted TTs based on records and comparison with others classes was taken by the SSPT for 2017. The use of pure records in 2016 threw up many anomalies and this was compounded by the large number of events that were regarded as "wet" events and scored big points. My role and Graham Franklands has been to fairly implement the agreed system which we believe we have done to the best of our ability and without favouritism. Only "time" (excuse the pun) will tell us how successful we have been. Lets hope we have a great season.

OK. I understand your points but please take on board that an exceptional driver / car combo in any class will screw things up for other classes if calculations are used to adjust times accordingly. Finally, if there are any 'easy' times they will soon be exploited and wont remain for long thus levelling the playing field naturally

[maurici]

2 minutes ago, John said:

OK. I understand your points but please take on board that an exceptional driver / car combo in any class will screw things up for other classes if calculations are used to adjust times accordingly. Finally, if there are any 'easy' times they will soon be exploited and wont remain for long thus levelling the playing field naturally

I'm totally agree with that. "easy" records, have been blew by (several) seconds this year, and should be respected. Why Marto's records were good enought to be keept, and this year after being blew by me and Adam, in perfect conditions and in a VERY competitive car with the best tyre choice available  are not good enought to be keept?

 

You are welcome to find a 2 secons drop here with any roadgoing westfield and toyos.

I really think that something in the calculations has gone out of hands in some tracks. Same in blyton, but there I did not pushed as hard as in anglesey, so take this one as a example.

 

[Terry Everall]

Please remember guys that there are NO RECORDS for classes A1,A2,B1 and B2 as these are calculated from the class C and D target Times due to the use of 1A or 1B tyres and Novice status 

 

[maurici]

And that is why i think that something has gone out of hands between percentages, drops, handicaps or whatever. this time is absolutely unrealistic.

However, last year the record was keept(even with kumo tyres). looks unfair to me.

[Terry Everall]

Maurici 

I don't know exactly which time you are questioning but presumably B1 for Anglesey International. If you look at the Novice TTs then it seems ok to me compared to other classes. It wont affect you next year though as you will be an Expert running in class B2 or D presumably 

[maurici]

well that will be if my new elected Spanish federation allows me to compete, that by the moment looks unlikely.

I'm questioning a "B" time. B2 looks even more unrealistic to me. You cant compare clases, as in long tracks and short tracks, behaviour, tyre lasting, brakes lasting, weight in general, have an exponential effect. Percentages may be allright to aply to One track with a specific weather condition to a related lenght...

But this 2% or 3% or whatever, gets desvirtuated when the different cars in different distances perform in a non linear way.

 

If you think B class time is realistic, nothing else to discuss about.

[AdamR]

I understand what you are saying Terry. I totally appreciate you can't magic times out of thin air, hence using class C and D times and a percentage modifier when nothing is available for A and B. However, where there are recorded times for Class A and B, why not use them? Again, a genuine question, interested to see why it's been done as it has.

The B2 target (and A1, and A2) for Anglesey International is now daft too, its 3.1% faster than last year and over 2s faster than my time from 2016. We had drivers in A1, B1 and B2 compete at that event in 2016 so it seems to make more sense to use their times as targets? A2 could be easily implied from the other three.

I appreciate this is just one example, but it's the easiest one I can think of now to demonstrate my thoughts.