2016 Speed Series Regulations - Your input please.

[Onliest Smeg David]

My preference would have been to stay as is And gutted I've not fully use my ZZRs BUT that's not possible now. 

 

I do not feel I am a sufficiently competent "Expert" Driver to run my current car in C & D on 1A or 1B tyres So I am against this option!
Graham aka Glutey

This has come up in other threads as well Graham.

 

I do not believe your missing anything Dave.

 

I cannot understand why any driver would not be able to drive on 1A / 1B, albeit slower. Beginner or Expert.

I've used 1A and 1B tyres prior to purchasing the ZZRs without issue, and I'm certainly no expert.

They're more predictable, telling you when they're about to 'slide' so you can react in time to hold them. Therefore safer.

That's why it was recommended by ARDS Instructors and others that I learn to drive on track with my original T1Rs before upgrading rubber. Which is what I did.

Certainly not 'ditch finders' and my opinion is that Classes A, B, C & D use 1B 1A as MSA clearly want.

 

In fact 1A 1B tyres will level the playing field in lower classes and benefit those drivers with good handling set ups that can carry speed through the bendy bits rather than just point and shoot using higher power.

 

Although I do very much see that Westfields running power like Richard and Luke's Supertec would be severely compromised. So 1C for roadgoing classes higher up and those that do not want to go 'full' Mod Prod.

 

I suspect going 1C would exclude many due to having to then meet Mod Prod regs, due to reasons outlined above by Dave.

So in this case I disagree with you Panda! If you run 1C it's full cage / Hans / etc and some indicating possibly MSA logbook too.

 

 

I also think we should focus more on true class target times and class champions.

Agree with this, and if an Overall Champion does not fit with this next year until the dust settles then so be it.

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

 

Although I do very much see that Westfields running power like Richard and Luke's Supertec would be severely compromised. So 1C for roadgoing classes higher up and those that do not want to go 'full' Mod Prod.

 

I suspect going 1C would exclude many due to having to then meet Mod Prod regs, due to reasons outlined above by Dave.

So in this case I disagree with you Panda! If you run 1C it's full cage / Hans / etc and some indicating possibly MSA logbook too.

 

.

well argued, I forgot about the bigger picture... glad im not on ssot

[mark.anson]

Im not going to comment too much on the road going tyre situation given that I've run on slicks for the most part but it seems this is and ideal opportunity to revamp the target time system and review all the target times.

If in fact the TT system way of scoring is favoured by the majority.

 

As we all know the TT system was introduced to reward the fastest driver but whether that has happened is a moot point as i can think of examples in recent years where that theory is debatable.

 

 It seem unlikely at this stage that the MSA will change its stance so why don't we scrap the target time system for at least next year and replace it with a 1st in class system.

This would enable new target times to be set under the new tyre rules and avoids complicated mathematical calculations revamping the existing ones.

I would favour scoring the class winner on the day 100 points. 99 points for second and time difference to third and so on much in the way it was in the past.

Irrespective of how many are in class on the day. Simple to manage, score, and gets round the nightmare tyre situation.

 

HOWEVER in order to ensure a fast driver wins overall a driver who beats the existing class record (target time) for his class scores an extra point.

 

At the same time I would like to see us align with the MSA in terms of engine capacity and reduce to 1700cc instead of 1800cc.for car engines in those classes that applies to (sorry zetec users).

Im afraid I've become a bit disillusioned with the way things have gone in recent years which is a shame as I've competed in the SS for the past 10 years but I'm giving consideration to building the Jedi up and doing something else !

Sorry rant over.

[windy]

Was the handicap system dismissed then?

It seems a logical solution to the tyre mess, assuming the MSA don't do any back pedalling in the next few weeks.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Was the handicap system dismissed then?

It seems a logical solution to the tyre mess, assuming the MSA don't do any back pedalling in the next few weeks.

 

No, but preference to consider it for a future year is the current feeling.

[Scottish Bloke]

Sorry I don't understand this theme that running on new 1b tyres is dangerous.

Firstly we don't know how the grip of the zzs or r888B will compare to what we run today. Secondly we all quite happily run in the wet but adjust our driving accordingly, thirdly there are plenty of much more powerful road and track cars out there running very happily on tyres that are nowhere near as soft as a ZZR.

The first Westfield I owned was a 330 bhp / 300ft/lb Cosworth ZEi220 It was on 5 year old CR500 tyres yet in the dry you could floor it in any gear other than 1st and it would hook up and go with no drama.

Sure you may need to be a bit more patient or progressive getting on the power out of a corner but I would not say they are dangerous.

Am I missing something?

No David, I don't think your missing anything.

I have edited my original post as my comment was unfair. My opinion relates to overall performance rather than from a safety aspect point of view. Put simply, I think it's fair to say in the correct conditions the ZZR is the tyre of choice for our cars.

Quite clearly in less than dry conditions we regulate our driving styles accordingly. I think this goes without saying? Many of the SS drivers have experience of various other tyres and you are quite correct, we do not know how the other available tyres will perform but the fact they comply with the EU would indicate they are longer wearing, i.e slower?

It's purely and simply a case of running the best available option to be as competitive as possible and in my opinion the ZZR is that tyre. If we cannot run it or choose not to run it to stay in a certain class on the day so be it.

Ultimately the choice is ours, either way it's going to be interesting.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

OK - having thought overnight about this, my suggestion would be following:-

 

Use list 1A or 1B in classes A-D and allow 1C in classes E and F. The reason is that classes E to F are more akin to mod prod spec cars with sequential gearboxes and full cages and it gives a place for those that want to run 1Cs a class to compete in within the WSCC SS (this sort of goes back to the concept when only 1As were allowed in A-D and 1Bs were allowed in E and F except its now 1A and 1Bs in A-D and 1Cs in E and F) I would leave the TTs as they are (subject to change for other matters arising other than tyres) and see how it pans out during the season. Then at the end of the season you could retrospectively adjust the target times based upon how the times achieved faired against the actual times for those classes affected by the tyre change (A-D). Not ideal I will give you, but at the moment there is no data to make an adjustment in advance. The only downside is not knowing the overall champion immediately but the class award positions would be known

 

 

As a side note, the Kuhmos and Avon ZZR are available in the following sizes 185/55/13, 215/55/13, 175/60/13, 215/50/13 and 235/45/13

 

The Toyos are available only in 185/60/13 and 205/60/13. The overall diameters are significantly larger than the Avons / Kuhmos and will impact gearing greatly meaning a change in ratios for those who care about such things

[Onliest Smeg David]

Good one John

Classes much better explained than I did!

And like your idea for Target Times, there'll have to be some form of fettling no matter which routes taken, and retro application of TT appears to me would be quickest way to get back up to speed.

[tkm_dave]

The only downside is not knowing the overall champion immediately but the class award positions would be known

 

Would make for some good suspense at the awards do!

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Would make for some good suspense at the awards do!

 

Ticket sales might increase as well

[graham frankland]

David

The things you are missing:

Individual driving competence, accident experience and personal preference (I would not have done my engine up-grade last year to run on 1A/1B tyres)

CR500 tyres are old technology and are being progressively phased out

New technology tyres are being developed in line with the EEC (not FIA) tyre energy efficiency regulations in the same way as most other products are now being developed with efficiency regulations to the forefront!

Tyre suitability, capability and safety is totally a decision of the driver within the specified regs

Graham

[Arm]

Good points there John. Might be returning if we get to keep zzr's. Don't care which class I run in just don't want to buy another set of tyres. Change diff ratio. Re setup the car .

[Terry Everall]

Just a small point but some SS competitors compete in more tun one championship and hence their "road going tyres" tyres will need to comply with both sets of regs if they want to stay in road going classes.

 

eg

Longton and District MC

Midland MC

Borough 19

Nottingham MC

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Just a small point but some SS competitors compete in more tun one championship and hence their "road going tyres" tyres will need to comply with both sets of regs if they want to stay in road going classes.

 

eg

Longton and District MC

Midland MC

Borough 19

Nottingham MC

 

I'm in that boat Terry but I would say it looks like you have to make a choice on which you want to do and deal with it unless someone can convince the rule makers to change things for all clubs / events

[ACW]

Just by way of consideration when thinking about the scoring system of 1st past the post versus target times verses handicap systems:

 

This year for A-H:

 

just over 43% of class events had 1 competitor

83.4% of class events had 3 or less competitors.

 

we moved away from 1st past the post because of not sufficient attendance and that was in the days where we would have 70+ active competitors doing events.