2016 Speed Series Regulations - Your input please.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Had a call fromMark Anson tonight who IMO has come up with some interesting points.

1) take the opportunity to sort out several problems and align out capacity split with other clubs at 1700cc

2) Due to a year when we will not have any performance data for 1A and 1B tyres (so no level plying field) we should, for 2016 only, use a 1st past the post simple system. Maybe 100 points  for 1st in each class with time difference for 2nd ,3rd etc. We could award an extra point for anyone breaking the class records that existed in 2012/2013 before we had ZZRs and this smoothes out some of the really quick times on ZZR.

3) At the end of 2016 we will amassed data for performances on 1A and 1B tyres so we use these to revert to TT's if we desire.

 

Terry- I think these ideas have a lot of merit!

 

ZZRs have been around since July 2010 (I bought the first ever set). Kuhmos have been around longer. Everything else sounds reasonable though and deals with another problem as well

[ACW]

Id like to see more detail of the 1st past the post system as clearly there has to be more to it that above. Just to reiterate:

 

over 43% of class events had 1 competitor

83.4% of class events had 3 or less competitors.

 

So 43% of event/class will be given max points for potentially just turning up. Cant see how this becomes the lottery of the past and makes the overall champion a lottery rather than any form of meritocricy.

 

Tell me how it will work please becuase I cant see how it can?

 

Edited to add:

QUOTE: 1st past the post simple system. Maybe 100 points  for 1st in each class with time difference for 2nd ,3rd etc. We could award an extra point for anyone breaking the class records that existed in 2012/2013 before we had ZZRs and this smoothes out some of the really quick times on ZZR.

 

So this isnt simple as basically class and overall champion will be decided entirely on beating some records - sounds like target times to me with the added dis-benefit of tie possibilities. The outcome of class and championship will be based on target times. So this becomes change for change sake. Personally thought I would like this as it easier for me.

[ACW]

1700cc split isnt what it used to be alas- many events choose 1800cc or 2000cc as the split. Particularly when considering Mod Prod as the MSA class (if we want to run 1C in any of the roadgoing). I suspect more of the events this year are not using a 1700cc class split for our classes then those that are when considering A/B , C/D, E/F and G/H

 

There are several supporters of the series who use 1800cc cars who could be pushed away if the split changed. Assuming the rule decided last year but abaited for 1 year isnt dropped (and I see no reason for it to be) then re-stroking engines in A-D wont be permitted. This probably address the issue without effecting more modest 1800cc cars.

 

Personally I think the days of cc based classes are long since arbitrary, as I believe I have proven (which was the point I was trying to make before proving it)... but that leads to a whole other can of worms. There is a solutuon but it too much change though has a lot going for it.

[Onliest Smeg David]

Had a call fromMark Anson tonight who IMO has come up with some interesting points.

1) take the opportunity to sort out several problems and align out capacity split with other clubs at 1700cc

2) Due to a year when we will not have any performance data for 1A and 1B tyres (so no level plying field) we should, for 2016 only, use a 1st past the post simple system. Maybe 100 points  for 1st in each class with time difference for 2nd ,3rd etc. We could award an extra point for anyone breaking the class records that existed in 2012/2013 before we had ZZRs and this smoothes out some of the really quick times on ZZR.

3) At the end of 2016 we will amassed data for performances on 1A and 1B tyres so we use these to revert to TT's if we desire.

 

Terry- I think these ideas have a lot of merit!

 

1)How does this help the classes? As far as I can deduce it just excludes a minimum four of us from A and one from C, probably resulting in us not entering the SS at all.   

 

2) IMO many awards would be won by the competitor managing to pick the least attended events where they'll have little competition in class! 

Just by way of consideration when thinking about the scoring system of 1st past the post versus target times verses handicap systems:

This year for A-H:

just over 43% of class events had 1 competitor

83.4% of class events had 3 or less competitors.

we moved away from 1st past the post because of not sufficient attendance and that was in the days where we would have 70+ active competitors doing events.

 

3) This will be necessary, but there may be some need for calculated TTs for 2017 due to either not all events having all classes on 1A/1B tyres in attendance, or having a non class leading competitor setting the TT making it an easy max points the following year.

[Onliest Smeg David]

Beat me Adrian, and some better put 

 

I must learn to type with more than one knuckle 

[Pistol Pete]

Just an idea, but B19 used to run their club championship based on how many vehicles in your class you beat, so coming third in a class on twenty would score more points than first of five. When used for the whole championship this tends to be people gravitate to the popular class and ensures the overall champion comes from a competitive class.

 

Good luck, knotty issue to get your head around.

[pete g]

I think target times can stay  same  .but slick cars will have a advantage for overall honours

road going needs to be on all the same tyres . but competitors who run 1c tyres this year will be at a disadvantage.in overall honours

 

pre 1990  cars will have advantage if allowed to use sticker tyres. might need addressing ?

 

so going to be a nightmare to sort out .and in 4 years it looks like we will have to do it all again .when they ban the next tyres.

 

good luck

[woodman]

A few years ago I took part in the HSA Championship

I remember getting totally pi$$ed off with the scoring system , it gave you more points if there were more in your class

sounds OK?

but quite often I would post a faster time than all the class above but score less points than the person who was second in the class above and who was 1 or 2 seconds slower.

That is why I like our time based system as it rewards a good fast drive

We are not racing , the only relavant fact is our time

[Pistol Pete]

A few years ago I took part in the HSA Championship

I remember getting totally pi$$ed off with the scoring system , it gave you more points if there were more in your class

sounds OK?

but quite often I would post a faster time than all the class above but score less points than the person who was second in the class above and who was 1 or 2 seconds slower.

That is why I like our time based system as it rewards a good fast drive

We are not racing , the only relavant fact is our time

 

How can you say that somebody who has 100 bhp less power but posted a time say 2 seconds slower than you hasn't driven well. Fastest time you can only comparing the car driver combo.

[XTR2Turbo]

I am still a bit confused by the 'must run in modified specialist production' comments

 

If you look at the regs below for the round at Loton Park this year, we were all lumped in a single Westfield class. It didn't matter what the car spec was.  I think the only exception was Craig who was entered in the Midland championship.

 

http://www.hdlcc.com/images/uploaded/4829338_4638528.pdf

 

If we allowed 1C tyres and all the cars were in the Westfield class again next year, would you need Hans etc even though the class isn't classified as modified production or is it soley based on the spec of the car??

 

Very similar grouping happened at Shelsley and MIRA

 

If so are we effectively saying that, if we wanted, we could allow 1c, run as this year and we just all need HANS but could otherwise be as we were?

 

The 'only' losers would be those that want to enter WSCC and another championship where different rules may apply?

 

If so this seems sensible as we are otherwise guessing in our rules what other clubs may allow for next year anyway.

 

I think Ferrari are always in their own class at events and they just hand out their own awards on the day.  I think Lotus did similar at Blyton this year.  Perhaps this approach would keep our trophy hunters happy also and they would be less worried about class on the day..

[woodman]

Im not sure I follow you Pete

In the HSA the less powerful car was scoring less points despite being driven faster

[Pistol Pete]

Im not sure I follow you Pete

In the HSA the less powerful car was scoring less points despite being driven faster

Sorry, with you now - miss read what you put.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

I am still a bit confused by the 'must run in modified specialist production' comments

 

If you look at the regs below for the round at Loton Park this year, we were all lumped in a single Westfield class. It didn't matter what the car spec was.  I think the only exception was Craig who was entered in the Midland championship.

 

http://www.hdlcc.com/images/uploaded/4829338_4638528.pdf

 

If we allowed 1C tyres and all the cars were in the Westfield class again next year, would you need Hans etc even though the class isn't classified as modified production or is it soley based on the spec of the car??

 

Very similar grouping happened at Shelsley and MIRA

 

If so are we effectively saying that, if we wanted, we could allow 1c, run as this year and we just all need HANS but could otherwise be as we were?

 

The 'only' losers would be those that want to enter WSCC and another championship where different rules may apply?

 

If so this seems sensible as we are otherwise guessing in our rules what other clubs may allow for next year anyway.

 

I think Ferrari are always in their own class at events and they just hand out their own awards on the day.  I think Lotus did similar at Blyton this year.  Perhaps this approach would keep our trophy hunters happy also and they would be less worried about class on the day..

 

We are only in our own class at about 4 or 5 events a year. 

 

But the point you make that we could run 1C with a Hans is right, running in the Mod Prod Category when we are in the general classes on the day. It does however mean that anyone on 1C including Novices in A&B would need a Hans.

[Captain Colonial]

Whatever difficult decisions the SSOT have to take, no matter how happy or unhappy each of you will be about them, I trust you will all respect the hard-working and often under-appreciated people in the SSOT who give up their free time and put themselves through the ringer for no more reward than giving back to the sport about which they are as passionate as you.

 

Reading these threads convinces me that I'd never want to be in their racing boots right now, but I know they'll do the right things.

[Numbers]

I am in the situation as I expect a lot of people are with a set of ZZR's with at least a season left in them and my helmet MUST be replaced for 2016. My car is a 1600 so assuming that I do not need a cage for mod prod I am OK with having to get a HANS to go with my new helmet ( sensible safety device)and run in mod prod for 2016.

 

Seems like the most cost effective and least annoying option for next year, I never win anything anyway,