2016 Speed Series Regulations - Your input please.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

The Role of the Speed Series Organising Team

 

The Speed series organising team (SSOT) comprises of the Competition Secretary and drivers representing novices and experts in a range of classes. Each year we look at ways to improve the series or make rule changes in accordance with the MSA or evolution within the sport.

 

The aim of the SSOT is to be as inclusive as possible. With increasing costs of competing, increasing regulations and other pressures on the sport, we are mindful that we need to appeal to any and all potential competitors and that it should be possible with anybody with a Westfield to compete in the series. This gives its own challenges as it means that we have to try to look at any change from all sides and try and steer the most neutral beneficial path for all.

 

Introduction:

The tyre lists approved by the MSA for 2016 have just been released; these move the very popular and currently used Avon ZZR & Kumho tyres into 1C which are not allowed in the Road-Going Categories. A lot of our road-going records have been set using these tyres and it therefore affects the Target Times we have been using for scoring. Having checked with the tyre manufacturers they are not aware of any external data which would allow us make a suitable adjustment for the reduced performance of List 1A and 1B tyres. . Within the classes this would make no difference, but it is important for our Overall Championship. Therefore it may be necessary for the SSOT to consider formulaic adjustment if these tyres are not available.

 

I should say that it is possible to run a car on 1C tyres by entering in the Modified Production Categories on the day. Indeed over the years our class E &F often do / used to do this due to regulations on the day.

 

However other changes brought in for 2016 mean that by running in Modified Production category there are additional FHR regulations you may need extra safety equipment including a Hans Device and a cage for over 2000 cc.

 

The SSOT has discussed this in a great deal of depth and we can see the following as options for the 2016 Regulations.

 

Classes.

1.       Continue with our existing classes and Target Times, allowing competitors to use tyres from lists 1A, 1B & 1C. Anyone running in 1C will need to run in Mod Prod on the day.

2.       Use only 1A & 1B tyres for some of our classes, eg A & B Novices, maybe even C & D Experts.

3.       Use only 1A & 1B tyres for all our Road-Going classes.

 

Scoring.

Target Times were introduced to try and eliminate some of the issues of low class numbers and reward the fastest drivers in the Championship. The previous scoring system relied heavily on the level and number of other competitors within a class and if there were only 1 or 2 active competitors in a class made it very difficult to win the overall championship.

 

A.      Use existing Target Time system with no adjustments to time and only adjust in 2017 once better data is available.

B.      Use existing Target Time system, but make a judged adjustment to classes not allowed to run 1C tyres.

C.      Change to some 1^st in class scoring system.

 

The above sums up the possible options that the SSOT can see as viable ways forward, there may well be something not yet considered.

 

We would appreciate open forum discussion on the options so that the SSOT can judge the feeling of competitors wishes. Obviously there will be some people with one opinion and others with another, please keep the discussion polite and wherever possible give reasons why you like a particular direction. The decision will be taken by the SSOT, this is your chance to give your feedback into the process.

 

Thanks for your input.

[XTR2Turbo]

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

 

 

I would limit A and B to 1a or 1b for 2016 so new comers don't have to invest in tyres to be competitive for one season.

 

I would allow 1C in other classes for 2016 only so existing tyres can be exhausted. 

 

I would allow for a novice to compete with a handicap in any class not just A or B.  So if they have already invested in 1c tyres, next year only they could choose to  compete with them (and potentially also need HANS / cage) in C/D or sell their 1C tyres on to someone in C-F and stay in A/B.

 

Given the above I would leave target times as they are for 2016 and recalculate next year if needed when more data available.

 

The two concerns I have with the above are:

 

1) that an existing C/D driver is potentially being forced to have HANS (is there anyone over 2 litre that would then need a CAGE ?)  I don't know how many this would impact in practice though.

2) at present there are very limited stocks of the 1C tyres .. hopefully they will be available for those needing new rubber for next year.

 

 

David

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Why not wait a few weeks and see if people power wins the day?

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Why not wait a few weeks and see if people power wins the day?

 

Because if it doesn't we will run out of time to sort this out sensibly, it's very unlikely to be just a few weeks !!. However we don't need to submit our regs until end of dec approximately.

[Terry Everall]

Remember one of the options is that Cand D also run 1A and 1B tyres in road going classes

[graham frankland]

I do not feel I am a sufficiently competent "Expert" Driver to run my current car in C & D on 1A or 1B tyres So I am against this option!

For the record there is also likely to be a shortage of new 1A/1B tyres in the relevant sizes which I also hope will been available in time for the 2016 seasons. No forecast of when they will be ready for sale is currently available.

I strongly favour trying to find a method within our regs to allow us to use the tyres we were using when we finished the 2015 season.

Thanks

Graham aka Glutey

[Paul Aspden]

Classes option 1

Scoring option A.

Look like the best alternatives to me. Allows run off of existing tyre, gives everyone a chance to see what is best 1b tyre and how it compares to zzr.

Scoring will be a compromise for overall champion, but as has been said in the past, let's drop the overall champ and add qudos to the class champions.

[graham frankland]

John don't hold your breath for too long!

I have spoken to two of the leading tyre manufactures and they have tried their level best to get this ruling overturned!

You are fighting EEC Legislation which unfortunately the List 1C Tyres do not comply!

Sorry to be a Party Pooper but I do not want you to build up false hopes.

There is always a chance I have got it wrong but I agree with Nick we should proceed on the basis this decision will not be overturned!

Sorry

Graham aka Graham

[tkm_dave]

If targets get reset to accommodate new tyre regs it would be fair for those in the affected classes that either the targets are reset in all other classes (nightmare to sort out for ssot) or the overall championship title is suspended for a year until targets settle. OR the overall title is awarded based on a different criteria, whatever that may be. Calculating theoretical targets for tyres people have no experience with would surely be near impossible to do and maintain a fair over all championship fight accross all classes.

While making C and D run on 1A or 1B tyres would be immensely frustrating for many competitors if it halts their continued year on year improvements, in terms of the WSCC Speed Series (ignoring on the day classes set by organizers) allowing 1C tyres in class C and D would be a luxury much more based on a driver's budget than say traction control and sometimes sequential gearboxes that push cars to E and F considering the cost in making certain cars mod prod compliant with full cages and HANS devices.

To make a car over 2000cc mod prod compliant so it can run 1C tyres according to the MSA could easily cost a competitor £1000+ for a cage and fitting, £250 for a HANS device, £250+ for helmet. A more realistic figure would be something around £2.5-3k depending on amount of cage fitting work, level of helmet etc. For that person then to be able to run 1C tyres in C or D seems potentially unfair, when the advantage is greater and the cost similar or more prohibitive than buying a second hand sequential and turning on traction and launch that is available on many reasonably priced ECUs now.

In a situation where it would be impossible to please everyone, I do have sympathy for those who have invested in 1C tyres and are now unable to use them, but does 1B vs 1C more truly reflect what should be considered as road going specialist production vs mod prod? With road going specialist production reflected in C and D cars and mod prod in E and F. Or have I just made a very good case for E and F to be merged with G and H, letting C and D run 1C tyres and E and F being forced to slicks?!?! Haha

[Scottish Bloke]

OK, so assuming 1C is not permitted I would suggest we don't guess or formulate target times. Sad as this latest ruling is the target times  have been amended mechanically enough to try and get them right up to this point. The times we have are fact so lets use them.

 

However!

 

Having said that I have made a suggestion recently about the TT situation. My point is that the target times are a Championship Record, set by the very fastest driver on the day, in perfect conditions with possibly new rubber, perfect weather etc etc. This in my opinion makes that time very difficult to match or beat as the conditions could be worse next year for a range of reasons.

SO I suggest the target time should be an Average of the top three drivers on the day. That way we eliminate the perfect scenario situation and give the pack an achievable time to chase next time out. This would also soften the times marginally and would assist our 'situation' with 1c.

 

Answers on a postcard  

 

Edited to keep on post

[paul n]

just out of interest how much power are you running scottish bloke? there are still speshilist track day/ performance road tyres in a slightly harder compound on the list, for example toyo 888 or the new R888R or even the P Zero Trofeo R which i think is specced on the Maclaren P1 with 900 bhp! so not exactly ditch finders! 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Posting John Hoyles comments for him

" Combine C and E as well as D and F and use 1A /1B tyres as allowing 1C will only prolong the problem. Maybe no overall champ for one year until we sort out TTs"

[XTR2Turbo]

and this is MSA listening to / aligning with FIA ?

You are fighting EEC Legislation which unfortunately the List 1C Tyres do not comply!

 

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

Giving you where I am... I'm running 1b tyres and they are low and need to be replaced , hence why I started the other thread.... (if the MSA make 1a and 1b tyres road going only. I then can drive to an event on the 1c's i was going to buy but Not race them in a road going class.

 

My disappointment are for the likes of Dave Richings & Lee Smith who have zzrs with tread left and then will be in a class that his points are not in line.

 

Therefore as a class 'a' driver I am happy for 1c tyre to be allowed in for the 2016 season in road going as the short notice by the MSA is not fair.

 

I also think we should focus more on true class target times and class champions.

 

cheers

 

panda

[XTR2Turbo]

Sorry I don't understand this theme that running on new 1b tyres is dangerous.

 

Firstly we don't know how the grip of the zzs or r888B will compare to what we run today. Secondly we all quite happily run in the wet but adjust our driving accordingly, thirdly there are plenty of much more powerful road and track cars out there running very happily on tyres that are nowhere near as soft as a ZZR.

 

The first Westfield I owned was a 330 bhp / 300ft/lb  Cosworth ZEi220  It was on 5 year old CR500 tyres yet in the dry you could floor it in any gear other than 1st and it would hook up and go with no drama.

 

Sure you may need to be a bit more patient or progressive getting on the power out of a corner but I would not say they are dangerous.

 

Am I missing something?