Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I have trimmed off a few replies that weren’t helping the situation. SUMMARY OF WHAT YOU NEED. 1)A ROPS that complies with K.1.6.1 or K.1.6.2 ie must have a hoop and 2 rear stays made from CDS tube that is 45mm Diameter x 2.5mm thick or 50mm Diameter x 2.0mm thick. It does not need to have any certification. 2)A ROPS that has been homologated by the FIA/MSA and has the appropriate documentation to prove it. This can be made from different diameter ie smaller tube as it’s been designed / tested and has passed. WHAT WON’T PASS This is not an exhaustive list and is here only to help, please check yourself if there is any doubt. Shown below are common designs of ROPS for Westfield’s that will NOT be accepted for Sprints & Hillclimbs. 38mm Roll hoop with 38mm rear stays with ball joints at the ends. 38mm Welded in Roll hoop with 38mm rear stays (but no homologation certificate) A single roll hoop of the right diameter with no rear stays. I had been working with Mark Walker of Westfield to try and get approval of the Welded in ROPS on the Race chassis, but unfortunately that has not been possible as Westfield made them from T45 material rather than CDS and did not get homologation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidgh Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Such is life . . . . . At the HCA&AC sprint at Debden on Sunday ROPS scrutineering was non-existent. All sorts of non-compliant hardware was passed without comment -- including a Westfield "MSA" roll-over bar in 38mm tube complete with a supplementary hoop welded on top, and rose-joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 seen the same at all the events i have been too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Yep so far this year looks like I wasted a lot of money changing my cage !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidgh Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 "Mugs 'R' We" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phelpsa Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Yep so far this year looks like I wasted a lot of money changing my cage !!! Maybe you have, but only if you want to risk being excluded from events and championships in which you compete. You might not want to rock the boat, but there are competitors out there who do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkm_dave Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Going to a full cage was a sensible move I fully admit, but after spending so many hundreds (thousands?!) of hours going over tiny details of my car for the last few years, given a choice I would have taken the time and effort to get a fully custom cage made and fitted (research was done, calls were made, measurements were taken) which would arguably be stronger due to better but more expensive materials. To be forced to take an off the shelf route only to seemingly have not needed to bother following the rules...yeh, p****ed off. Martin, after removing your full cage to replace it with another full cage you have plenty of right to feel mightily aggrieved. To think this has forced a number of people to stop competing and in some cases even been the final straw to make them sell their car all together, just because they were trying to do the right thing and comply with the rules while others just didn't give a s**t but continue to be allowed to compete. What a joke. If these rules are going to be forced upon competitors for better or worse the least they can do is stick by them and actually enforce them. If they aren't enforcing safety critical matters then why do we even bother trying to comply with any rules at all other than in the spirit of fair competition. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Going to a full cage was a sensible move I fully admit, but after spending so many hundreds (thousands?!) of hours going over tiny details of my car for the last few years, given a choice I would have taken the time and effort to get a fully custom cage made and fitted (research was done, calls were made, measurements were taken) which would arguably be stronger due to better but more expensive materials. To be forced to take an off the shelf route only to seemingly have not needed to bother following the rules...yeh, p****ed off. Martin, after removing your full cage to replace it with another full cage you have plenty of right to feel mightily aggrieved. To think this has forced a number of people to stop competing and in some cases even been the final straw to make them sell their car all together, just because they were trying to do the right thing and comply with the rules while others just didn't give a s**t but continue to be allowed to compete. What a joke. If these rules are going to be forced upon competitors for better or worse the least they can do is stick by them and actually enforce them. If they aren't enforcing safety critical matters then why do we even bother trying to comply with any rules at all other than in the spirit of fair competition. I'm with you Dave, what a mess !!! It's not fair that those of us who have spent good money to comply with the new regulations now feel sick to see others happily competing without a care for the rules and being allowed to by the poor jurisdiction of the MSA. What a balls up MSA ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 at the moment they seem to be mainly checking helmets . had mine checked carefully at every event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Such is life . . . . . At the HCA&AC sprint at Debden on Sunday ROPS scrutineering was non-existent. All sorts of non-compliant hardware was passed without comment -- including a Westfield "MSA" roll-over bar in 38mm tube complete with a supplementary hoop welded on top, and rose-joints. If it was me in those circumstances and I'd spent all that money to be compliant with the new regs, I'd not only be confronting the scrutineers, I'd be reporting them AND the non-compliant competitors to the MSA, not sitting back, saying nought and fuming quietly about the injustice of it all. The rules, whether we think they are fair or not, must apply to everyone or they mean nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 numbers are already down if you remove the others you wont have any one sprinting my quess is alot dont come on forums and unaware of alot of the rules or dont understand them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Harewood was the same with clearly dubious roll over protection being allowed to compete, passing scruting. But they were 'regular' Harewooders - sods law we turn up with last years ROPs and get excluded! As a club we've absorbed the expense and effort to comply when others have not. Some have understandable been forced out. my quess is alot dont come on forums and unaware of alot of the rules or dont understand them Your probably correct Pete However, I was talking to one Harewood series competitor who had completely rebuilt his car to meet ROPs who told me another competitor, fully aware of rules, hadn't bothered but had still been allowed to compete at several rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidgh Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 If it was me in those circumstances and I'd spent all that money to be compliant with the new regs, I'd not only be confronting the scrutineers, I'd be reporting them AND the non-compliant competitors to the MSA, not sitting back, saying nought and fuming quietly about the injustice of it all. The rules, whether we think they are fair or not, must apply to everyone or they mean nothing. Valid point Scott -- but life is too short to be spent on litigation of any sort. I was just rather hoping a member of the MSA Speed Committee would read this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Do we actually need the MSA? I dont think the autograss do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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