Mark Stanton Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I know its no consolation - but ever since the first year of the speed series way back some 17 years ago - WSCC have been asking WSC Ltd, what seems like every year, to get MSA approval for their roll bars and to date .......................... and now this has all come to the forefront ..................................................... good luck guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 You have to remember that when a cage is added to a chassis it does strengthen it and in an analysis of any structure you would need to look at the overall performance of the chassis an cage acting as one system. We cant do anything about the chassis so adding a cage of any sort is an improvement IMHO Terry, It would appear the roll cage approval is done on its own, not bolted the the chassis, so the chassis structure would not form part of the approval test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Just an idea, in the absence of the approval coming via WSC ltd, could the WSCC fund the test? Anyone care to enquire as to costs at MIRA? If so this could get resolved quite quickly I'd have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Last time we did one it was about £800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I know someone who went through approval and it was £1500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phelpsa Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Terry, It would appear the roll cage approval is done on its own, not bolted the the chassis, so the chassis structure would not form part of the approval test.In a spaceframe you can count as much of the chassis as roll cage as is required to pass the tests.Edit: Although that would then make those parts of the chassis homologated too, obviously difficult if making a cage that fits a range of chassis specs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggy@smr Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Last time we did one it was about £800. I know someone who went through approval and it was £1500 When I asked the MSA at the Autosports show, I was informed that the cost would be taken care of by them. Just waiting to see what happens now. Ref to the chassis strength, i feel after looking at a Playskool approved cage at the Westfield openday, there is on major flaw, and that is where the rear stay fits to a U bracket, which has no strength in it at all. The forces would be transferred from the front along to the main hoop, down the rear stay to basically a 1.5" box section. The older original race chassis seems a far better way of doing things, but as it stands, is not able to be used for MSA events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi all, we've been through all of the scenarios here with MSA, Westfield and Nick over the last few months and are waiting for the final conclusion. Hopefully Nick will bring this to us shortly. For clarification, I have been in discussion with Nick, Simon Durling (Chairman of the MSA Speed Events Commitee) and Mark from Westfield since October last year, we've covered all of the bases we can and are in the final stages which involves Nick presenting a letter to Westfield for certification by the MSA. I know it's frustrating, believe me when I say this has caused no end of stress, but we're nearly there. Just wait for Nick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Aspden Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The cost of obtaining cage approval would be circa £1500 from the information I obtained from the msa late last year. As for chassis forming part of ROPs, that would be a bad move as the cage testing (both by calculation and physical) measures deformation of parts of the structure, so the chassis may fail long before the cage, but the test would be a fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Hi all, we've been through all of the scenarios here with MSA, Westfield and Nick over the last few months and are waiting for the final conclusion. Hopefully Nick will bring this to us shortly. For clarification, I have been in discussion with Nick, Simon Durling (Chairman of the MSA Speed Events Commitee) and Mark from Westfield since October last year, we've covered all of the bases we can and are in the final stages which involves Nick presenting a letter to Westfield for certification by the MSA. I know it's frustrating, believe me when I say this has caused no end of stress, but we're nearly there. Just wait for Nick! I refer all of you back to my post of the 1st February, the MSA has acknowledged the letter I have chased them and we await a reply. I will of course continue to chase for an answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham frankland Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Hi Folks Nick and I think it most appropriate for me to share with you what happened yesterday at the Loton Park Practice Weekend held under full MSA rules and Regulations. 3 cars were excluded from taking part due to non compliant ROP as specified in the 2016 Blue Book The 3 cars in question were a Caterham with a full cage, a Westfield with a standard hoop with no rear stays and a Fisher with a Roll Over Hoop with forward facing stays. On both the Caterham and the Fisher the tubing of the Roll Over Hoops were smaller in diameter than specified in the Blue Book and neither had labels or certificates to prove that the devices had Homologation Approval. To be fair to the Scrutineers they were prepared to explore all possibilities to avoid exclusion and at least an hour was spent in detailed discussions with the Clerk of the Course to carefully consider all the issues. I took time after the decision was finalised to speak with both the Senior Scrutineer and the Clerk of the Course to better understand the reasons for the decision which was explained to me as follows: 1) The specification of ROP is very clear and detailed in the 2016 Blue Book 2) No need for any interpretation of the rules 3) To allow any competitor to run with any ROP that did not comply could result in the Loton Park track Licence and Insurance becoming invalid in the event of any accident or injury. I think they did their very best but on this basis they were faced with very little option but to exclude the cars in question. I trust you will find this information useful as I believe other events in the future faced with similar non compliance issues will arrive at the same conclusion as the Hadley and District Light Car Club did yesterday. So to avoid disappointment and loss of entry fees it might be sensible to ensure that you all have ROP on your cars that does comply with the current Blue Book. Regards Graham 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Shame that there is not another oranisation other than MSA. The Auto grass had the right idea and went out on their own I think. There are probably enough speed championships to form their own group and stick two fingers ( and lots more) up the MSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 3 more competitors lost for ever my quess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 What is even more maddening to me is that the chassis the cage is bolted to can be any old piece of homemade shiiite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 What is even more maddening to me is that the chassis the cage is bolted to can be any old piece of homemade shiiite Yep _ redicuscandalous! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.