Paul Aspden Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Just a quick query, I wonder what the position is regarding cars with full cages (not to current requirements) which have MSA log books, such as the flymo, and my old Striker? Both had cages which passed scrutineering for Racing, and held log books for sprints and hillclimbs, but neither would meet the current regs, neither did they have a cage certificate. When I log booked the striker I was asked who fitted the welded on cage, to which the reply was "manufacturer supplied as part of the kit". This did not present any obstacle to the log book (despite no cage certificate) To my mind, there are a lot of cars in this situation, Martos and others, with cages which met regulations at the time of fitting, were acceptable (for racing where accidents are more likely), but did not get certified as they met the minimum requirements at the time. If the MSA get away with this, will they soon insist on zero emissions for all competing cars regardless of age? Seat belts in historic vehicle, cages to current regulations (50mm hoops) in classic race cars etc. If this is the attitude then WSCC wants to review its relationship with the MSA, to ensure that its members are not in breach of any MSA affiliation rule which prevents them competing in none MSA sanctioned motorsport events. Rant over.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Yes Paul The trouble is that there are probably alot of competitors ( myself included) who just wanted to do a few events a year and now that option is unavailable. ironically for me is that the min requirement roll hoop is probably less safe than my full cage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 ironically for me is that the min requirement roll hoop is probably less safe than my full cage Couldn't agree more Stu. It is ridiculous that I'm being encouraged by the MSA ( who are supposed to look out for our safety ) to replace my cage with a roll bar ( cheapest option to comply ) It is equally ridiculous that I should have to throw away a perfectly adequate 38mm tubed roll cage and replace it with yet another 38mm tubed roll cage. ( have the cage manufacturers pulled some strings ? ) Surely if the holomogated cage offers a satisfactory level of protection ( better than just a roll bar ) then mine must do the same, well I can confirm that, having rolled after hitting a tyre wall at approx 60mph, not sure how I'd have faired with just a roll bar ? As much as it annoys me I'm going to make the changes necessary so I can continue to compete next season, but I won't be buying a new holomogated cage or a non holomogated 45mm roll bar, I'll be fabricating my own roll bar to MSA specification and bolting my current front cage back on. Don't even start me on TYRES !!!!! Rant over 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Aspden Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 So Martin, what will you do in 5 years time when they decided to increase minimum dimensions again, and you don't have a certificate for the roll bar? It's happening now, so will only happen again later. You could race the damn car next year with no problem, but you can't sprint it.....madness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FILFAN Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm sure the msa are doing everything possible this year to antagonise an many competitors as possible Helmets with hans Tyres Roll protection. Do they think we're made of money!! This is meant to be a sport for everyone not just those with thousands to spare. I seriously question the integrity of some of these decisions but that's just my opinion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm sure the msa are doing everything possible this year to antagonise an many competitors as possible Helmets with hans Tyres Roll protection. Do they think we're made of money!! This is meant to be a sport for everyone not just those with thousands to spare. I seriously question the integrity of some of these decisions but that's just my opinion Agree... Either they've forgotten about 'grass routes' and those just starting out and dipping their toes into motorsport OR they just don't care.If these rules had been in place before I'd started competition there is no way I would have started sprinting. I just could not have justified expenditure on speculatively having a go. I do understand a need to progress safety though. But feel this could have been done/handled in a better way to help ALL competitors. I do think that one of the factors that hasn't helped our cause is the 'road going' classes with very fast high spec cars that clearly are no-where near what would be classed as a full road car and never used on a road. And also that there is no standard build for road registeted kit cars compared with mass produced cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickmaster Andy Lowe Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Aspden Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I understand that a none WSCC member who is following this thread has been in contact with the msa regarding the issue of former race series cars with weld on hoops and bolt on half cages competing in speed events He has been advised that there is a possibility of retrospective homologation of this setup subject to the number of cars wishing to compete in speed events. We wait with bated breath..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickmaster Andy Lowe Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Same here Andy engines out, dogbox out - road engine /box already in raised her up,sofened dampers fitting slower rack and comfy seats will probably sell tho - £7K anyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I understand that a none WSCC member who is following this thread has been in contact with the msa regarding the issue of former race series cars with weld on hoops and bolt on half cages competing in speed events He has been advised that there is a possibility of retrospective homologation of this setup subject to the number of cars wishing to compete in speed events. We wait with bated breath..... Not just non WSCC members talking to MSA on this issue Paul, but as yet nothing positive to report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Same here Marto no responce as yet from MSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Stu How would we go about getting everyone in our boat ( WSCC & non WSCC ) together to speak as one voice ? Would this help our cause ? Do you use uphill racers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Could we set up an online petition somehow? I just think it's so ridiculous that we have to cut off a T45 steel welded in roll hoop that is 38mm x 3mm to replace with a bolted in T45 steel roll hoop that is 38mm x 1.5mm!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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