XTR2Turbo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Martin - I think it is because they have calculated / proved that their design is sufficiently strong with that tubing diameter and MSA have accepted that. I assume part of that is also because it is designed for a Westfield that typically weighs 500 - 600kgs Likewise the rose joints will have passed in their design The MSA spec is more general. But it does seem unfair I assume the cost of certifying yours would be more than replacing unless you know who made it and can check with them. I think Graham F did this for his cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That's exactly right David. Oh course depending on your skills you might be able to replace the sections of an existing cage that does not meeting spec.just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 which are the mandstory elements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Nick My car has a welded roll bar 38mm ( no rose joints ) and bolt on front cage made by Caged for the original Westfield race series. For the past two years I've been running with a cage and last year a cage and HANS device so safety is important to me, but this decision by the MSA lacks any provision for common sense, if it were those guys putting their hands in their pockets I think things would be different. Not happy and not sure I'm going to bother next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Nick My car has a welded roll bar 38mm ( no rose joints ) and bolt on front cage made by Caged for the original Westfield race series. For the past two years I've been running with a cage and last year a cage and HANS device so safety is important to me, but this decision by the MSA lacks any provision for common sense, if it were those guys putting their hands in their pockets I think things would be different. Not happy and not sure I'm going to bother next year How about replacing the rear part with a MSA Spec bar from a certain well know supplier for £ 260 and still bolting the front on. I know yours is welded, but a man of your skills should be able to sort the mounts out ? OK, it will be hassle, but solves the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 which are the mandstory elements? All in the Blue book Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Not happy and not sure I'm going to bother next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowlee Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I have a full caged cage, manufactured/purchased in 2004 in 38mm t45 (have receipt to show/prove). Does anyone know if this will be acceptable, I thought that it would be, but re reading the blue book referenced above, now i'm not sure. I will give caged a call tomorrow if I get time, if not will call msa on Monday. But any help or words of wisdom welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I believe that the Caged cage is homologated and hence will be approved and should have a silver sticker on it somewhere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I have a full caged cage, manufactured/purchased in 2004 in 38mm t45 (have receipt to show/prove). Does anyone know if this will be acceptable, I thought that it would be, but re reading the blue book referenced above, now i'm not sure. I will give caged a call tomorrow if I get time, if not will call msa on Monday. But any help or words of wisdom welcome. Phone Caged and ask them for a copy of the Approval Certificate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowlee Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I can't find the nice silver sticker on it (other than the 3 caged stickers) I did try calling them today but was after they closed so will try again tomorrow. I really hope I don't need to get another one. I was under the impression it met standards and hopefully I will be proved right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowlee Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Does anyone have a number for caged as I have 2 numbers one has a message saying this number does not accept incoming calls, the other just rings and rings. I thought that someone would have been there on a Saturday but I guess not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentinik Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Does anyone have a number for caged as I have 2 numbers one has a message saying this number does not accept incoming calls, the other just rings and rings. I thought that someone would have been there on a Saturday but I guess not. They don't work on saturdays, only monday to friday. My homologation sticker is on the inside of the left upright, just behind the passenger seat. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Yes thats the normal place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowlee Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 They don't work on saturdays, only monday to friday. My homologation sticker is on the inside of the left upright, just behind the passenger seat. Mike Thanks mike, I have looked all over it, the only stickers I can find are all just caged cage stickers 1 on each side at the rear and one on the main hoop. I have even removed the rear cover to see if it was somewhere like the bottom of the rear legs. has anyone ever seen the relevance of section K1.6.4 for cage sizes for non standard cars. I take it we can't say that we have non standard cars. I have just re checked my sizing and the main cage is 38mm and the extra bars are 32mm T45. 1.6.4. Other Considerations (a) An effective rollbar must be fitted with its top edge not less than 5cm above the helmet of the normally seated driver. It must be wider than the driver’s shoulders at that height. It must be constructed of good quality seamless steel tubing of minimum 35mm diameter and wall thickness of 2mm. It should have the top bar straight or slightly curved but no tubes meeting in an inverted ‘V’. It must be effectively braced to structural members. (b) Non-standard cars are advised to fit a rollbar to the following minimum requirements. Minimum height 72cm from the rear of the uncompressed seat cushion. It must have minimum flat width of 38cm running into radiused corners and affording driver and passenger equal protection. It must be effectively mounted and braced to structural members forward and aft of the cockpit and not less than cockpit width. It must be constructed of good quality seamless steel tubing of minimum 32mm diameter and wall thickness of 1.5mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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