ToT house sale problem

[pistonbroke]

Looking for advice from the WSCC building fraternity and anorak society 

 

We have a house (bungalow actually ) up for sale which belonged to the Wifes mother.

 

Last year we had the property fully re furbished  , we thought everything was in place until we get a letter from our solicitor saying  we need to provide a FENSA certificate for the replacement doors and windows (double glazed units)

 

Now our solicitor tells us it is illegal to sell a house which has had replacement windows fitted since 2002 , unless it has a FENSA certificate . 

 

We have approached the contractor who fitted them but as he is not FENSA self certificated he cannot provide the cert . 

 

We have a receipt from the double glazing supplier to say the installed windows are FENSA compliant , apparently this is not good enough 

 

We have been told to contact the local authority who can supply a cert as it comes under building regs . 

 

All this sounds like codswallop to me , how can  it not be possible to sell your house just because the windows don't fully comply ?  

 

Any help or advice gratefully received 

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

 

[Young Pretender]

It's all down to the purchasers preference AFAIK. If you don't have a certificate you (or the purchaser) can purchase indemnity insurance for approx £50.

Your solicitor should be clued up enough to explain?

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Installation of replacement windows has been included in the building regulations since 2002, so if the contactor wasn't FENSA registered and therefore able to self certify his own work he should have prior to carrying out the work submitted a building regulations application for the Loacal Authority for them to inspect and certify the installation on his behalf.

As has been pointed out you can submitt a retrospective application to the Council to regularise the works, and assuming everything is ok then they will issue you with the relevant completion certificate you require.

It is not illegal to sell a property which has had unauthorised works carried and/out or does not have the relevant certification for works, but the home owner (not the person that carried out the works) is legally responsible for the work. Therefore any liability and/or risk of prosecution (although unlikely) passes to any subsequent owners or purchasers of the building. It's for this reason that solicitors and lenders can sometimes be a little bit nevous.

Feel free to call me at work if you need more advice.

http://www.colchester.gov.uk/article/2524/Building-Control-Surveyors-Areas

[Terry Everall]

This is a common problem as there are lots of window installers who do a good job but are not FENSA registered. Most people are unaware of the contents of the Building Regs which changed in 2002 and FENSA registration does not apply to things such as repairs or extensions

[Dommo]

The house I just bought also had this problem. The vendors had to buy some kind of indemnity insurance.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

It's all down to the purchasers preference AFAIK. If you don't have a certificate you (or the purchaser) can purchase indemnity insurance for approx £50.

Your solicitor should be clued up enough to explain?

indemnity insurance isn't worth the cost, if the work was carried out in 2002, the time limit has already expired for when the Local Authority can take enforcement action, which is all the insurance will cover you against.

An insurance policy also wont help the buyers when they come to sell in the future as the lack of certification for the windows will again be flagged up when the searches are carried out, and then they'll have go through the same as you are now.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Sorry, it's late and I just re-read to original post and realised the work was carried out last year. That being the case it's still well within the time limit for enforcement action (again although unlikely)

[Young Pretender]

I'll defer to your experience mate, I know you are in the know.

That said, for £50 it just gets your ducks in a row and keep things moving so may be worth exploring

[Mark (smokey mow)]

It looks like a regularisation application for inspection and certification by the council will only cost £81.70 that's good value as we charge £177.78

http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Docs/PDF/Resident/Planning-and-Building-Control/FeesLeaflet2.pdf

[Wile E. Coyote]

indemnity insurance isn't worth the cost, if the work was carried out in 2002, the time limit has already expired for when the Local Authority can take enforcement action, which is all the insurance will cover you against.

An insurance policy also wont help the buyers when they come to sell in the future as the lack of certification for the windows will again be flagged up when the searches are carried out, and then they'll have go through the same as you are now.

 

...although being cynical, it's surprising the solicitor didn't mention it (I'm pretty sure they get commission on them?).

That said, the clown that handled the sale of our last place damned near caused it to fall through when he wanted to argue with the other side about who should pay for a ~£25 policy for something or other.

[John Dolan - Wirral & North Wales AO]

Smokey Mow seems to know his stuff, he says it is not illegal to sell, whereas your solicitor says that it is.

 

Sounds like its time for a new solicitor.

 

:-)

[iain m]

We are going through the motions of a possible move, we had major renovations done in 2006 and the builders now all retired ( far more competent than window fitters) eventually replaced all the windows without issuing any sort of certificate. Should I be seeking some means of resolving this before we go on the market?? There is a mention of a time limit?? bearing in mind double glazed glass units only have an effective life of around 20 years,what action should I be taking to avoid the inevitable ??

[stephenh]

The house I just bought also had this problem. The vendors had to buy some kind of indemnity insurance.

Correct, and the cost is minimal, in the order of about £20 last time I dealt with such a thing (I'm retired now). In theory, the "proper" way to deal with it is to get the local authority building inspector to come and issue a certificate that the windows comply with building regs, however, it will take ages to do this, and there is a fee. Hence, the easy way out is the cheap indemnity policy.

Speak to the solicitor/conveyancer acting for you, Pistonbroke, and ask if they will offer a building regs indemnity policy, and at the same time ask them to tell you the cost.

pm me if you still have difficulties. 

Bollocky Bill, it isn't illegal, but the home owner is in breach of building regs, so is at risk of being ordered to remove and replace the windows. The purpose of the indemnity policy is that if the local authority did so order, then the cost is met by the insurer. The risk is minimal, hence the premium is also minimal. Simples.

[corsechris]

Went through this about 6 months ago. I had fitted a new door and some windows in my old place a couple of years back, then another new window to tart it up for sale. To be fair, the survey I'd had done when I bought it 28 years before suggested that the door and windows in question needed sorting.... 

 

Declared the work on the property enquiry form, of course, I'm not FENSA registered, I just stated it was a DIY repair (which it was). No hassle ensued.

 

TBH, buying an indemnity seems like the quick & easy fix to me in most cases. My solicitor suggested it but our buyers weren't bothered so we saved ourselves £47. Of more concern was the Chancel Repair Liability!! Definitely bought an insurance policy for that one.

 

The gas boiler hadn't been serviced, the electrics hadn't been checked - neither presented any issues. Very much down to the buyers though of course.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

In theory, the "proper" way to deal with it is to get the local authority building inspector to come and issue a certificate that the windows comply with building regs, however, it will take ages to do this, and there is a fee. Hence, the easy way out is the cheap indemnity policy.

 

Stephen, If the installation has been done correctly then it can be as quick as 48hours from submitting the application to having the completion certificate in you hands. 

 

Building Control moves a lot faster than planning does