Tax discs to be scrapped (fee remains)

[Quinten]

You can do that now. Many do.

Yes, but a quick look of a passing copper on the tax disc displayed would show an anomaly... not so from October 2014...

[dombanks]

i would be concerned that putting it on fuel would affect alot of people. i.e. those who cannot afford the most fuel efficeient cars etc.

 

so basing it on 10mpl (~46mpg) you would use 1000L per 10K miles. so 1p on a liter would cost you £10. not so bad really.

 

23mpg = 5ppl so 10K would cost you £20 extra. even at 4ppl that would be £80 quid. it would benefit me in the Z4 as my tax is £280 and i do about 12-15K

 

norm i think your idea has merit but if you sold the car what is to stop the buyer from simply not registering it? i buy your car and dont inform dvla, you get my fines and insurance? nice ... i think it would be better to make the seller responsible for informing of the new ownership. so the seller sends off the forms with the new owners details.

[simon besant]

Err don't forget if it whent on fuel all the haulage companies that do thousands of miles a year would put there prices up so things lie FOOD

And more importantly BEER would all go up in price and heating oil electricity gas and water as all these companies run vehicles to maintain the systems

Keep the tax disc

[MPG]

Have you been following the long running fight about HB 2453 in Oregon?

 

They currently get all of their roadworks money from fuel taxes. Some people were upset that electric cars get a free ride. So they tried to pass a law that you would also have to pass an annual tax based on the number of miles you drove. Then people complained because Oregon would be charging them for miles they drove out of state to pay for in-state roads. So the next step was that they decided to mandate that every vehicle would have to have a GPS device installed which would calculate how many miles they drove within the state boundaries. Now they're arguing about what the penalties should be when you tamper with this box that the state ordered installed and what to do about cars registered out of state which drive on Oregon roads. It'll probably continue to get more and more complex for quite a while yet.

 

The tax disc is a lot simpler.

[Norman Verona]

Quenten, that's got nothing to do with transferring the tax to a fuel duty.

Dom, transferring the tax to fuel has nothing to do with registration of vehicles. Tax discs and V5c registrations are not linked.

MPG, things are somewhat different here. We have national taxes not state taxes. My uncle lived in Washington DC and drove over the state line to get cheaper fuel. I could never understand this until I understood the US tax system.

 

The tax disc is going so any benefits that brought will go with it. My suggestion is to move the VED to a fuel duty. The more fuel you use the more you pay. The large lorries pay thousands of pounds now so the tax could be set to be not much more.

 

Just to put this into perspective: The government revenue from Fuel Duty in 2009 was £25.894 billion, with a further £3.884 billion being raised from the VAT on the duty contributing some 4% to the total UK tax revenues

 

VED raised 5.63 billion pounds in 2009.

 

I'm guessing at 4p per litre to raise a similar amount with no (extra) collection cost. Anyone got any idea how many liters of road fuel is sold par annum in the UK.

[mikef]

The best I can do is 2009 when 15.5 million tonnes of petrol was used and 20 million tonnes of diesel.

 

It depends on temperature etc but there are approx 1380 litres of petrol in 1 tonne and 1185 litres of diesel in 1 tonne.

 

Thus, if my calculator is correct, we used 21,390,000,000 litres of petrol and 23,700,000,000 litres of diesel.

 

Making a total of.....45,090,000,000 litres of road fuel.

 

I stand to be corrected 

[Meakin]

I've always said fuel made more sense especially when you have 2 or more cars/vehicles my total mileage for a year is about the same so makes sense to pay for that rather than the fact I have a car either on my drive or in my garage at any time.

[pistonbroke]

And why were at it we could stick insurance costs on fuel bills , stop all the none insured types flounting the law 

[Norman Verona]

Bernie, it's been studied to death and won't work.

 

Mike, does 4p a litre make 1.8 billion?

[dombanks]

Bernie, it's been studied to death and won't work.

Mike, does 4p a litre make 1.8 billion?

Not in the slightest. doing average mpg and miles you'd have to put something like 10ppl to make up the tax loss. we would be better off with it on fuel but then as pointed out before goods etc would go up? Or would they? I have no idea what lorry tax is? But if it were a cost neutral exercise then they wouldn't?

[Wile E. Coyote]

And why were at it we could stick insurance costs on fuel bills , stop all the none insured types flounting the law 

 

The obvious drawback is that you can't handle the differences in risk profile if you do that.

 

...not to mention the fact that not all aspects of insurance (if indeed any) are fuel consumption related.

[Meakin]

Bernie, it's been studied to death and won't work.

Mike, does 4p a litre make 1.8 billion?

As Dom states its about 10 to 12p per litre but even with that it still evens it out much better than the old taxation system. Partly due to tax avoidance and the administration cost being taken away, I believe that the average petrol user of 12 to 15k miles a year is a lot better off approx £125 and that lorries etc would be about the same as they currently pay. Approx £2000 I believe.

Small business it varies depending on type of work small van large mileage types are worse off but it does match their road use.

I stand to be corrected on these figures but the only downside is the people they employ to administer the old tax system will lose their jobs.

The biggest advantage is that it is a truly fair tax. The more you use the more you pay. This makes it very hard to argue against.

[dombanks]

As Dom states its about 10 to 12p per litre but even with that it still evens it out much better than the old taxation system. Partly due to tax avoidance and the administration cost being taken away, I believe that the average petrol user of 12 to 15k miles a year is a lot better off approx £125 and that lorries etc would be about the same as they currently pay. Approx £2000 I believe.

Small business it varies depending on type of work small van large mileage types are worse off but it does match their road use.

I stand to be corrected on these figures but the only downside is the people they employ to administer the old tax system will lose their jobs.

The biggest advantage is that it is a truly fair tax. The more you use the more you pay. This makes it very hard to argue against.

im sure they could employ them in policing an overly complicated system to keep things in check ...lol

 

i had a quick look about and found a several blogs/sites etc that said an average consumption of a fully laden big lorry was ~3mpl so "back of a fag packet calculation" on 100k miles pa adding 3p per l it would add ~£1000 to the cost of fuel. the highest tax group on the govt website for a lorry was ~£1800. i guess the system could be administered such that the tax was reduced for haulage companies etc so the costs didn't spiral through some sort of tax thing. just the same as we dont pay VAT here as we are a research institute.

[Norman Verona]

Be it 4p or 12p it would bring all the spin of benefits.

 

VAT on commercial vehicles is nearly all reclaimed now so adjusting VAT won't help. However the big commercial vehicle fleets could be given a tax refund on the amount of fuel purchased.

 

We can discuss this for weeks, it's not going to happen. The people we elect to look after our affairs only look after themselves.