Should the club have a valuation service

[Norman Verona]

Most clubs like ours do.

 

I guess we could get someone to track prices for cars of varying prices and then we could issue a certificate for insurance purposes. 

 

It would be usual to have photos of all 4 sides (2 photos), the interior and the engine bay. The valuation cert could be made out and the whole lot sent on the the insurer for agreed valuation cover.

 

1) is it worth setting up?

2) is it needed.

 

 

 

3) No, we're not having a vote!

[dombanks]

i think having somewhere to go for a sensible valuation would be a good idea. it seems a bit hit and miss with the values sometimes. i know "the cars are worth what soemone will pay" but frankly thats a crap answer as you need to start somewhere and have some sort of idea.

[AidanPlace]

Yes

Yes 

and No 

 

Insurance co has asked for a valuation from me. I think it would be a good thing to have. This year I have no agreed value as I have no where to go to get one. You know the Insurance Co. will try to screw you over.

 

Aidan

[SteveD]

not impossible to do imho but hard as insurance companies usually have or ask a specific person to do it for them as its more reliable , but not everyone , and tbh less are doing it these days as the valuers know jack **** about westfields or kit cars  , I have done several valuations in the past for insurance companies when people renew there policy

[Captain Colonial]

*committee hat off* < Take notice

 

Nice idea - but utterly impractical.

 

First, it would have to be done in person.  No way would anyone sign off on a valuation based on photos alone, when the photos could be any age, Photoshop can make any car look great, and with no way to tell if underneath the good-looking car if it's sound or a non-functioning bucket of bolts.  So based on photos - not a chance.

 

So it would have to be done in person.  That means travelling to the car or the car travelling to the valuer.  This costs money (obviously).  As the AA and RAC are set up to do this on ordinary tin tops but charge about £150, you can assume the club would charge at least this much if not more.

 

Lastly, the killer - legal issues.  The last thing a valuer and the club want is to be dragged into court when a dispute occurs between insurer and the insured over the value of a Westfield involved in an accident - and believe me, it would happen.  Again, this reinforces charging for the privilege to pay for such eventualities.

 

Not trying to be a killjoy here, but looking at it with my real world glasses on.  Sorry.

 

*committee hat back on*

[Wile E. Coyote]

It would be handy Norman but, as Steve says, they can sometimes be very prescriptive.  It is something I'd be happy to pay for though, if I knew that club insurers would accept it.

 

IIRC, MGCC and TSSC both had their certificates run for a few years in order to cut down on the work associated. (they were also done from photos + spec, Scott, with only an extra opinion needed over a certain value).

 

Where it gets harder is that, unlike say an MGB (where specs are pretty similar), it's a lot harder to find a sensible replacement for a Westie with an unusual engine.  I can imagine insurance companies trying to reject the notion that a car could be worth more than a recent sale price simply because there aren't any available...

 

Imagine you start with a Cossie, gets stolen, what's the comparable - a recently sold Cossie (if there aren't any available), similar power/spec but with different (probably cheaper) powerplant, or an similar car + engine transplant (probably the only way of putting you back to where you started in a sensible timeframe).

 

Must confess, it was something that was always at back of my mind, but hadn't realised the engine prices had gone up so much.

[User0083]

I'm on side with Scott. In theory it's a great idea. However when my insurance company asked me for valuations (As they valued my £10k car at £3k a week after I picked it up) I had to jump online and find 3-5 examples of cars that were within 18 months either side in age, the same engine, within 5,000 miles either side and similar specification.

Luckily on the WF website they had two 1.8 zetec's and a 2.0 zetec, all around the £12,500 mark, found one on eBay and in on pistin heads, all similar value. My car had 1200 miles, that was the hardest bit to find on other cars!!! Most had 8-10k at the age of mine.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Committee hat off <

So basically, the situation hasn't really changed since the last two or three times Norman asked! With the exception that the market has got worse, or at least more volatile due to the financial state of the country.

There is quit a bit on this in the archives if you have a search, although it does get quite heated at times, it's an emotive subject.

The L7C I understand uses an I dependant specialist Caterham dealer? Unfortunately, the (small) world of Westfields isn't really blessed with such animals, in fact the only one I know of is Toybox!

The other thing I can't help noticing - much as Chris points out; the other clubs that have a valuation service all seem to be fundamentally for production cars, (with book values), that may or may not have been modified in some way. This is worlds away from Westfields, where even two completely identical spec kits may be built in very different ways that have a big affect on the values.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

I thought you could do an "Agreed Value" policy with Insurers, where you declare it's worth when you take the policy out. They can then either agree or dispute that figure before agreeing the policy. But once agreed in a total loss situation that is what they will pay. Both my race cars are on that basis and I am sure I used to have the Westie on the same basis. It's currently on laid up insurance which is on that basis.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Mine was agreed value with photo support, (ie to prove the rough spec when policy was taken out), but that was only acceptable up to a certain maximum value. After that you needed a report from a third party. (such as the factory).

[Norman Verona]

I'll try and deal with the above one at a time.

 

With the correct legal wording and a signature of the owner there is very little risk. L7C can manage it and they run and hide as soon as you mention "legal". They have a chap at Stratstone in Norwich (somebody Munday?) who do there's. But he does it as an independent person not through the dealership.

 

Insurers will charge a rate per thousand for agreed values. The only reason they want independent valuations is to cut down on fraud. They seem to be happy that a club member will value another members car.

 

This would be for insured values. In other words how much would it cost for you to buy a similar spec/year car if yours were a total loss (better described as "beyond economical repair). It is not designed or meant as a buying/selling guide.

 

I think that most of the members cars "written off" are, in fact, repairable IF the owner was prepared to do the work himself (wouldn't apply to everyone) so it ended up as a parts only claim plus a nominal amount for the owners time. This is what I did. Mine had an agreed value of £30,000 but I rebuilt after a major accident (new chassis etc) for half that. They were delighted and couldn't believe I didn't want paying for, what for me was a labour of love.

 

 

However, having said that, if the club see too many obstacles then let's forget it.

[dombanks]

i thought norm meant a valuation that was non-binding. rather than a post in the forum of "whats my car worth" it would be a sort of service to give you an idea.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

He's talking about a valuation service to produce a "certified" value for your insurance company to assist you in getting agreed value insurance cover.

 

This is not a valuation scheme for selling/buying cars, that really would be practically impossible on our scale.

[dombanks]

He's talking about a valuation service to produce a "certified" value for your insurance company to assist you in getting agreed value insurance cover.

 

This is not a valuation scheme for selling/buying cars, that really would be practically impossible on our scale.

yeah i gathered that....

 

still maybe a network of places/people around the coutry that are respectable/able to value the car would be good? you know people like steve etc who you would take it to or could do it for a fee.

[davidgh]

 

However, having said that, if the club see too many obstacles then let's forget it.

 

Committee hat firmly on ->

 

Agreed, Norman  --  I really don't see that the club has the ability to offer this service.

 

However, if a trade member felt there was a need, and wanted to offer such a service and advertise it via the Boardroom, I don't think we'd have a problem.

 

David