Mark Stanton Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Yep although we must continually look at improvements and continued developments - essentially a road-going class must remain that road-going as original manufacture - Now, Westfield manufacture and have copyrighted the SE, SEi silohouette and that includes a windscreen. The problem lies as Guy states with other championships not having such specific knowledge and allowing aeroscreens in road-going - thats fine for the Mega range - but not as far as the original Se and Sei cars. Sequential - yes they were a "stopped" quite outright and to the point in road-going by the MSA. But check your Blue Book for 2002 - it is open to interpretation and no longer a black and white issue. Perhaps it should be time to petition the MSA to show the direction and state catergorically yes or no. The SS regs will surely be adjusted for 2003. But until we resolve the issue fully and weigh up all the pros and cons without predjudice or bias we cannot get a true picture. We've only had two events in 2002 and just take a look at the postings already - to gather a full perspective on the matter we must have some experience on what effect certain items have e.g a sequential box. To simply add another class may weaken the competitive edge class 1c and 2c ?? With those drivers being noted as non-road-going modified at certain events. e.g with the use of non list 1a tyres. With the amending of up to 1700 now going up to 1800 this is merely in line with the general event rules and modern engine development - and honestly a well tuned and sorted 1700 X-Flow is very capable of producing more than sufficient BHP to cope with the output of an 1800 zetec. This is sprinting and hillclimbing - where set-up and power usage has far more affect than overall grunt in the appropriate classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 spam boy which blue book have you read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 The current one and so have many others and its not a yes or no answer - my next call is to the MSA for their clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 A well sorted X Flow will not compete with a similarly well sorted 1800 twin cam engine whether its Zetc, K series or other. Its not all about peak power but the usability of the power through the rev range which a 16 valve engine will always give you. Its bad enough trying to compete with 1600 Ecotec's which realistically X -flows cannot, never mind 1800 engines as well. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 John Just look at it realistically where the SS is at present - with all due respect to our 1800 zetec drivers - its hardly flooded out with high powered souped up 1800 units is it Evolution is the word and the SS will continue to evolve. Anyone want to swap a 1700 X-Flow for a 1600 CVH thought not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted April 9, 2002 Author Share Posted April 9, 2002 Blimey, leave for a long weekend of final prep and it looks like a few nerves have been touched and a few interesting points have been raised. First of all, as stated before, I'm not asking for a change to the rules, just gauging what the general feeling is - which this thread seems to be doing very succesfully and productively. I don't think that the current road going class should be eliminated, that would be ridiculuous as it is the most popular class in sprinting. I agree the issue of running in conjunction with other championships is very important. However, some people only run in one championship (the WSCC Speed Series) too, so a class within the SS would be fine for these people. As for 'all the extra work'. I don't see it being much work, it's another set of regs, quite simple to police, another line in the spreadsheet and another trophy or two. If help is needed I'm happy to do my part. With more and more cars leaving the factory with aeroscreens and List 1B as standard these people are going to be alienated from the SS. They will have the choice of dropping the car to the floor, removing lights and indicators, fitting soft slicks and kissing goodbye to any road-use (along with buying a trailer and a car to tow), or, retrofitting windscreens, wipers, washers and another set of tyres. So as things stand, a reasonable percentage of cars leaving the factory will not be illegible for any class in the SS. It would be nice to get some other marques into the SS as they're currently only sparsely supported. c******m Superlights, SLRs and R500s are leaving the factory with ACB10s and aeroscreens as the norm now and so this would open up the series for their entry (which would be a wonderful comparison). From my own selfish perspective, if the Blue Book is open to interpretation I will wait for the ruling and if it goes one way then I'll continue in the current road-car class (and expect annoyed glances), if it goes the other way then I will move into Derek and Steve's class with no complaints. However, as I still want to use the car on the road it will stay at it's 3" ride height, retain A032s/ACB10s and still be driven to and from the event (and so retain it's lights and indicators). Anyways, as said, of course I'll abide by the rules with no complaints. This thread/poll was started to find out what people felt, and from this point it's succeeding! Graeme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Mark, My point is that they dont need to be souped up high powered 1800 Zetecs. A standard 1800 Zetec on carbs with 3d mapped ignigtion will between any reasonable 1700 x/f. It will have a wider power band and more torque plus faster pickup and on average weigh in with 150+bhp. And what about 1800 K series motors? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Rot! My car has more power, and torque, than yours John, and I'm yet to get anywhere near your times........You're just a better driver than me, and that's what the results show. I need lots more power to disguise my lack of talent, and that's currently being addressed. If all you need to win is power and torque, then watch out, 'cos there will only be about a half dozen cars out there with more than what I'll (hopefully) have........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.S.M Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 You boys and your power, power, power, power, i dont know! tut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Exactly Blatters its all about ability of which I have absolutely none - anyone fancy a game of golf instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 only if we can race the golf karts. (do they do sequentials?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 They're fully automatic and they have a full windscreen and treaded tyres New regs for 2003 - everyone will be racing golf carts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 Seems a sound idea. Do they do them in carbon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 any info re gearbox rule yet anyone ? I have emailed MSA etc.. but no reply ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Jury still out - bet ya they don't commit any way yet Carbon Golf Carts only come with full roll-over cages as standard issue to make up for reduction in bodyweight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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