Re: Guy's Car For Sale :-o

[Horsebox]

You muppet, you wanna spend more time in your garage and less time watching pants TV programmes!

[gee_fin]

Clarkey, but surely your Catermarran will be weighed down, what with all the platinum switches, gold plated bolts and diamond encrusted nuts

Actually, seriously, I think it will be _very_ interesting to see how an SLR does in the series. Even if it is driven by a muppet

Is the other SLR (was it Andrew Dent) going to be joining you?

[Nick M]

Get lost    Anyway, it's cold out there now !!

[ian crocker]

Quote:

Probably the most successful road going sprint/hillclimb Westfield of 2001.

Ultra-reliable 2.0 SBD Vauxhall, 254 BHP (dyno sheets available) built 2000 no road miles.

Me thinks your rules must need some changes!

Ian (roadgoing sprint Westfield, 3000 miles every year....)

P.S.  How do you get this quote thing to work properly  

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Dont c******ms have a separate class?

[gee_fin]

Well, some of the road-going cars were getting a little silly. I mean, dog-boxes aren't really road-going, but then some people would say straight-cut isn't really road-going either. *shrugs* Where do you draw the line. Rules are rules, if it conforms it's in. We can all go silly on power and gearboxes if we want to, it's open to us all

[Nick M]

Quote:

We can all go silly on power and gearboxes if we want to, it's open to us all

Except to those that can't afford it.  Why turn a competitive series into an arms race if you don't need to ?  

Do people want the motto of the Speed Series to become "to win at all costs" ?

[gee_fin]

At the moment I think it's a good mix. I wouldn't want to race in something like the 750MC kit-car thing as all you have to do is put an engine in your car and you're over-specc'd for the series, and you can't have any fun bits on the car either.

The Speed Series is currently very well balanced, only a handful of cars in the road-car classes are running very high power but they are also very, very well driven and I would be surprised if they've spent much over £20k. The majority are still road-going in spirit and the times generally show good, close battles which proves the fairness of the regs.

I don't want to have to spend silly money to win, whoever wants to can but it wouldn't really be in the spirit of things and so far noone has.

[Nick M]

That was my point exactly.  You almost end up with a class within a class if people start getting too silly with engine power and other developments.  And rules designed to restrict things like engine power, e.g. the 750MC series, to even up competition often don't end up being much cheaper in the long run.  Similarly rules stating that you have to drive to and from events tend to be self defeating.

I know that to some extent it's inevitable that people will want to seek out a competitive advantage but it currently seems to be a pretty well balanced series and the people who are winning aren't doing so purely as a result of their equipment.  

It would just be a shame to spoil that if people felt there was no point in taking part if the only competition was who has the biggest wallet.

[ian crocker]

Why is a rule that says you have to drive there and back self-defeating ?  You just need AA cover in case you break something and can't get home.  It means people have to use proper roadgoing engines that don't need a rebuild every 1000 miles.  It means people have to use tyres with a reasonable amount of tread on them.  It means the car has to have a reasonable amount of ground clearance.  It will need a radiator/fan sized large enough to prevent overheating in traffic etc etc.

Cheers,

Ian

[Nick M]

OK, maybe self-defeating wasn't quite the right phrase, but it's not that difficult, if you were so inclined, to circumvent it by, say, trailing the car so far and then driving the rest of the way.....

Equally, people travel quite a long way to some of the events and may be accompanied by other halves, helpers, etc.  Taking two cars to an event just so you can get the tent, tools, tyres, etc., there and back could be a logistical pain in the bum.

I agree with your points though Ian, don't get me wrong, it's just that trailing a car to and from events is often more of a practical consideration rather than one designed to give a competitive advantage.

[Blatman]

I would agree with GeeFin and Nick M WRT to the general balance of the rules. As with most motorsport, IME, it is nearly always the man with the biggest wallet (or rather, the man who is prepared to spend the most on his racing) who comes out on top. This is less clear cut in sprinting and hillclimbing, but there will always be an element of that kind of thing. Those of us who only aspire to a large budget (ie me and the scottish    ) are always slightly disadvantaged. GeeFin is considerably more experienced than me though......and my grin, or sense of enjoyment, is not diminished due to my lack of competitiveness, in fact, it gives me a chance to prove that you can aspire to be competitive on a relatively modest budget, as GeeFin will agree.

I'd still like to buy Guys car though.....

[Mark Stanton]

Looking at the WSCC Speed Series history - the championship winners are as follows :

2001 - Garry Bunn - 1700 X-Flow - Novice

2000 - Lindsay Pointon - 2L Vaux SBD - Novice

1999 - David Jones - 1700 X-Flow - Novice

1998 - Nick Lear - 1700 X-Flow - Novice

All have gone onto investing time and money into their cars in their promotion to expert, a perfectly natural progression

But to win the championship over recent times has not been solely dependent upon throwing wads of cash at the cars, there has to be a high degree of driving skill and consistency    (Thats why I ain't gonna win).

Every season the Series regs are looked at and fine tuned to give everyone an equal chance, as far as possible. The spirit amongst all the competitors has been brilliant - and looking like continuing - Its the friendly championship.

Obviously with the continual growth and success of the series - we may attract one or two drivers who will endeavour to "buy" success, but it hasn't happened yet, remember that we had 100 registered drivers in 2001 giving 100 chances to throw large amounts of cash. Can any other "one make club championship" offer the same ?

The future for 2002 see's one or two more tweaks of the regs currently with the MSA for approval. 2003 will probably see some more dependant upon what occurs in 2002 - evolution.

[windy]

It was suggested a while ago that awarding points for the championship to those people that drove their cars to the events might be a good idea. The question is how does one police the rule - those devious amongst us might trailer the car to a convenient layby near to the venue and then drive the last mile or so for instance! As I share the use of a trailer the events I picked to do this year were driven to in the Westfield. I drove from home to Anglesey and back (400+ miles) and from home to Boscombe and back (200+ miles) and thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it even though the car has a straight cut box and dry sumped engine. The way I look at it is it gives you a good chance to practice by driving to the event (the A5 across Wales is superb). The roads to Le Mans are also excellent (but unfortunately I didn't qualify for the race!!!!).

Regards

Windy

[Guest]

Amazing to see that this has sparked such debate!

First of all I believe that the WSCC series should be (as it is) biased very much towards the novice drivers (classes A and B). I think it will always be that there are more novices than experts competing in the championship and with maximums only possible with a large class entry it is very unlikely that an expert will win the championship -look at the record so far. It would be detrimental to the series if that changed.

It would also be wrong if you could "throw money" at a car and win easily. Thankfully that will probably not happen. The apparent illusion that it is easy to win in a car with lots of hoursepower is just that -an illusion!! Anyone that thinks it is easy to drive 250bhp competitively on road tyres and win easily, you're welcome to try -see you next year. Quite frankly that view is fairly insulting anyway.

The club should encourage "graduates" of the WSCC series to go on to other championships, rather than just focus itself inwards as there is evidence of at the moment.

That is exactly what I did, only doing WSCC rounds where they coincided with others or when I had a free weekend for a bit of fun. I don't believe that spoiled it for anyone, quite the opposite in fact, as it is also good for "so called" beginners for "so called" experts to turn up too.

Unfortunately though the club does not really acknowledge what members do elsewhere which has a tendency to alienate those that do go on to other things.

I also think the whole idea of forcing people to drive to events is very silly. That won't make it more competitive, it'll just mean there are very few entries. I trailer my car to events not because it won't drive there but because I'm far too old to be driving a long way in a Westfield and anyway I like to take my family.

Also the WSCC rules have to fit in with other speed championships unless you want to be totally isolated. These rules are very clear and the definition of roadgoing also well defined. My car fitted those rules -many others didn't (no wiper motor, no no plate light, lights the wrong way round, no passenger seat -the list is endless).