Finding A New Engine

[Norman Verona]

Conehead have you informed the buyer of the x-flow that the oil pump needs a rebuild?

[Conehead]

It doesn't read the thread

[Conehead]

Thanks mark that's great be a winter project I think...

Just the info I was looking for I can really take my time think it through now. It was difficult before as I was unsure of the exact work required.

[Geoff101]

You might also need an alternator bracket as well depending on which zetec you get hold of. Didn't someone already mention an idler kit for this as well??

What about a water rail? Is that needed or can you get away without?

[markcoopers]

You don't really need a water rail, and certainly not in a narrow as the thermostat housing is simply miles from the scuttle. But you might want to think about a suitable thermostsat at say a 88 or 92 degs over the more common 95. the engine does like to run warm.....certainly compared to a x flow.

The altanator is an interesting one as you may indeed need a smaller one, but you might get away with the x flow one. I used a CVH XR3 one i think. The mounting bracket was part of the silver top westfield engine mount, but i have seen many types and some really very simple and clever.

You will also need the coil pack and the HT leads, often they come seperate from scrappy engines. To be honest new HT leads are worth while...another £35-£40 i think.

I would also advise adding in ARP rod bolts, and a new sump gasket and that there is another £80ish it all adds up

[Conehead]

I have taken the lump off sale as the last thing i want to do is spend time and money and not have anything more than what I have now. I don't want to do it just for the engineering exercise! I will put the car on ebay for auction soon and take what I can get for it. This may be the end of a pretty down heartening westy experience! sulk sulk.

If I don't get a decent amount then I wont be replacing it! as I have invested alot of my money in it for nowt!

[chazpowerslide]

Before you get ahead of yourself have you found out yet if you have a lowline nose? As unless you fancy fitting a new nose and bonnet that may severely limit your potential engine options.

Good advice.

If you go for a 2.0 Zetec in the narrow body car you will need to budget for a new oil pump as the one on the 2.0 Zetec will foul the lower steering column (how badly depends upon how you finally mount the engine).

You'll need to fit the oil pump from a 1.8 Zetec, it's a straight swap and while you are at it the crank oil seal (oil pump end) will need to be replaced.

You'll need.

• Carbs, 40's for a 1.8 Zetec and best to go for 45's for for the 2.0 Zetec. Free as you have a set or add £100 to the selling price of your 40's.
  
• Inlet manifold. budget £100+ new (Dunnell)
  
• 3D wasted spark ignition module/O2 sensor/ wiring harness. Weber Alpha/Dunnell/Emerald/Megasquirt) upwards of £600 new.
  
• Alternator mount and belt. £100 form the factory cheaper if you DIY. (Westfield/Dunnell)
  
• Water Pump from a 1.8 Zetec (the 2.0 Zetec one runs the wrong way around in a Westy install) £40 (motor factor)
  
• Engine mounts/pedestals/rubbers (the factory N/S mount will need modding the O/S mount will fit OK) IRRC about £140 from the factory cheaper if you DIY
  
• Exhaust manifold (the factory Zetec Manifold will fit ok, you may need to modify the entry pipe to the silencer as the manifold is for a wide body and thus sticks out further than the X/flow one. Budget £350 - £400 for the manifold/pipe mod
  
• 1.8 Zetec oil pump £125 OEM
  
• Crank oil seal £15 OEM
  
• Zetec Engine Budget £300 for a good one.
  
• Polo rad £40 from motor factors (the standard copper escort rad will be marginal)
  
• Rad fan 11" £65 from SVA/Merlin/Demon Tweaks
  
• Clutch, best use the 1.8 Zetec Flywheel (lighter then the 2.0) so a 1.8 Zetec Clutch £90 from motor factors will do.
  
• Spigot bearing £15 from Burton.
  
• Budget for a new clutch release bearing as the one you have may not fit. £35 motor factors.
  
• Starter motor, (CVH engined Ford Sierra LRS101) if the one you have does not fit budget £100 outright.
  
• Cooling system re-work pipes/clips ect (simple rubber pipes will suffice) budget £100
  
• Re-work engine bay electrics Budget £100
  
• Service items for engine (plugs, oil, filter, antifreeze, cam belt ect) budget £100
  
• Shallow sump and modded oil pick up pipe budget £275
  

That's up to £2840

You were then looking at a gearbox, a good standard T9 will set you back up to £150, the 1st gear is low on the standard T9 'box and with your final drive it'll be U/S so I'd be looking to change the diff to lengthen the gearing, add another £2-300 depending on the cost of a good second hand diff.

The Zetec will rev out to 7Krpm all day so you have a few more revs play with over the X/Flow.

You'll then need to have the motor dyno'd to get the best from it budget £350

If you go for the latter "Black Top" Zetec the 2.0 water pump will be ok, but you'll still need to change the oil pump.

The standard Ford EFI system will not fit into a Westy narrow (the inlet manifold fouls the steering column) so there is little point in paying over the odds for a motor with all ancillaries fitted.

So, add another £100 for sundries and you are up to £3590.

It won't be cheap but you could shave at least £750 off that with a lot of DIY and second hand bits.

You could bodge it all together for less but then you'd have a car that was no more reliable than your old X/Flow

I have fitted two Zetec motors into narrow Westies a 1.8 and a 2.0, it's an involved job and you really need to be aware of what you are getting yourself into.

The question you have to ask yourself is this, is it worth all the time, expence and heart ache, spend 50% of the conversion cost on the X/Flow and get it spot on and it'll 90% of the Zetec for 50% the cost 100% of the time.

Chaz.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

IIRC, That's very nearly what the whole car sold for last year.

[Conehead]

That's more than ill get for it on ebay next week

[Norman Verona]

I take it that "it" refers to me.

Unfortunately, I have read your threads and apart from anything else I was horrified at you proposed next move.

Back to your pump.

A good oil pump will generate between 1 and 2 bar pressure ON THE STARTER. To say you've cured the problem by increasing the tickover from 600 to 1000 indicates a very worn pump.

Please, please sell the car and give us all a break.

[FILFAN]

How come you have gone from selling a working engine and fitting a new one to selling the car and giving up.

If a Westfield is what you want then don't sell it. When it comes down to it your car is the same as everyone else's on here. A metal chassis with bits bolted on to it. If you just take your time to do things correctly and let people help you they you can have a fast reliable car.

All the rushing and not thinking things through has prob been the root cause of alot of things.

If you fit a Zetec from the scrapers and just bodge it in then you will more than likely be in the same boat after a few weeks.

To get power and reliability you need £

If its running fine now then use it an maybe just think about the gbox as an upgrade.

There is also more power to be had out of a 1700.

You could always fuel inject it then when the time comes for a new engine the ecu, tbs, pumps wiring etc will already be there and make it alot easier.

And don't sell it now. Who the hell wants to buy a open top sports car at the end of the season with no summer left and snow on the way

[AidanPlace]

I was trying to find my receipt from Dunnell for the bits I got when I converted to Zetec but it's not to hand. I did get a quote from another reputable engine builder which goes like this:

QTY PRICE

2000cc Ford Zetec Service

Engine - Complete 1

Inlet manifold gasket 1

Inlet manifold 1

Inlet manifold fitting kit 1

Block to bellhousing dowels 2

water rail 1

water rail fitting kit 1

Thermostat housing kit 1

Water rail 'Focus' mounting strap 1

Blanking plug - water rail 1

Idler pulley kit 1

Idler pulley 1

Spigot bearing 1

Wet sump pan kit 1

New generation baffle tray kit 1

Sump gasket 1

Dipstick 1

Dipstick tube 1

Oil filter 1

Inlet manifold mounting kit (studs/nylocs) 1

Alternator mounting kit 1

Throttle potentiometer and fitting kit 1

ECU module (3D ignition only) 1

Wiring loom (3D ignition only) 1 £1,995.00

Installation parts

4 into 1 stainless steel exhaust system £745 1 (Primary pipe set = 345.00)

£ 345.00 (Collector = 135.00)

£ 135.00 (Silencer = 295.00) Exhaust system mounting kit 1

£ 45.00

Clutch release bering 1 £ 25.00

Lightened flywheel to spec 1 £ 150.00

Starter motor 1

£ 85.00

Alternator 1

£ 135.00

Alternator pulley 1 £ 15.00

Alternator belt 1 £ 15.00 All prices exclude vat £2,945.00 Inc VAT £3,460.38

Bear in mind this is 2 years out of date but includes a new crate zetec.

Would I do it again, yes, but it took all winter, there was a lot of head scratching, frustration, bruised knuckles and swearing. It is however my car that I rebuilt.

Can you do it cheaper than above, yes, if you source second hand and wait for the bits to come up. I'm using 40's not 45's, I bought second hand primaries before I bought the engine, I had a polo rad I had intended to fit and hadn't.

Engine mounts, there aren't any, well any that fit, so you have to make your own, or pay Westfield £100 so that you can cut them up and re weld them.

Should I have bought a new crate zetec rather than try rebuild one from a scrappy, yes, in the long run I should. But if it goes pop, and it will at some stage I have all the other bits to swap over.

Is it more reliable, no not really. Yes it makes more power, but i've had a lucky escape with a cam belt shredding which really should have cost me a new engine. My crossflow never missed a beat and trust me I thrashed it. Do I feel comfortable thrashing the zetec, no not really at the mo.

Did everyone on here suggest selling and buying a Zetec, yes. Were they right, yes, from a financial point of view I could have had a very nice wide zetec for the same money. But it is my car that I rebuilt. Extra bonus from being in the narrow club too.

Did it take ages to get the fueling right, yes, and I don't think I would ever have if I hadn't stumbled upon a stockcar/weber/mechanic guru who "fettled" it

It always always works out at more than you think you'll spend. It has to be treated as a labour of love and if you want it sorted quickly, bite the bullet and get rid and buy again.

Aidan

[Geoff101]

I take it that "it" refers to me.

Norman - I think you have to give CH the benefit of the doubt and assume that was intended to be two sentences. Add a full stop after "doesn't".

[Norman Verona]

OK, I see that now.

Sorry CH, hope you can see why I misread your post.

[Norman Verona]

CH, may I make a common sense observation.

For half the prices quoted above you could get your x-flow rebuilt by a professional engine builder. With the correct components and know how you can get a safe 150 bhp from a x-flow. This would come with a very high degree of reliability.