Bought It, Track It, Blew It

[EPC]

Make me feel better and tell me someone else has done this!

I bought the car back in october last year, i got a great looking car that I am realy impressed with. I have always wanted a toy! I went with a 2L zetec silvertop with twin 40 webbers, MT75 gearbox and a megajolt ingition system. The car was running great (only done 1100miles since build), I bought it with touring and track in mind. When i was looking around I was advised to buy the 1st built and learn as I go!!!

This takes me to the first track day about 3 weeks ago. i booked it with the mind set to shake the car down a bit I notice a slight oil leak about 2 weeks prior to the day, I had ran it into a garage that also build kit cars. They added a 2nd crank case breather and did a total oil change. They told me the leak was tiny.

The morning session was wet so it was fustrating as I wanted to know the handling limits of the car, but apart from slight oil excaping the car was running really well. The afternoon dries up slightly and we got a good run out. Took the car in for a cool down and 1/2 hour later we were back out, then the noise!!!! At first it sounded like top end. So to limit the damage I put it awat for the day on the trialer and joined my mate car (Jetta behind) for the rest of the day.

I have had a couple of peoples views on the noise since the track including the garage that did the work, it has been confirmed the crank is shot!!!!! After musch debate (you can all put forward your ideas) I have concluded the best idea is to buy a brand new black top 2L, that way I know the history of the engine. (I am not convinced this engine has been rebuilt, it looked nice lick of paint ect. however with brand new oil in the system the leaking oil was jet black!)

I would be very greatful of your advise on this, I always knew i would need a new engine at some point just not 1100miles into it's life, I want to get this right for the long term.

1. Would the new black top fit striaght in from the silvertop? is it a case of bolt off the old and bolt on the new? are the mountings the same? (The work will be done mainly by the guy in the Jetta that has done many engine conversions over the years) What do I need to know about this idea? Will the auxileries fit? will the sump fit?

2. After some debate it sounds like the problem causing the crank to go pop was down the oil stravation (i hope to prove this when the old engine is stripped down), I have heard this is common in zetec down to oil stravation in high speed cornering? The sump is baffled. However is it better to change to a dry sump kit if I am to continue to track the car? How can I avoid this stravation again?

3. Or is the best option to go for a recon silvertop? I have had a look at Mtec Automotive, has anyone delt with these guys? Would this option be the best solution?

It would be great to hear your adivse as I need to avoid this happening again!!!!!!!

Cheers and look forward to meeting up when she is reborn!

p.s. For all the teachers out there, I know the spelling is all over the place!!! Where is the checker!!!

[peterg]

A member on here 'Timdave25' replaced his (IIRC) silver with a new blacktop that he got from Raceline and a bunch of us went round his house to help with the swop, there were some things that needed changing (I remember grinding off a bit of an offside engine mount for example) but it was all fairly straightforward... this was around 3-4 years ago

As you're not a WSCC member you can't PM him so I've sent him a message to look at this thread as I can't find the engine swop post but he'll have the details of what needed doing and where he got the stuff from (I think just about everything can be obtained from Raceline though)

[Pistol Pete]

My advice would be to go to the scrapyard and pick up a replacement silvertop, make some modification/replace the sump then experiment. Last you want to be doing it putting in a brand.new engine and crossing your figures that you've sorted the oil surge issues.

most engines will outlast production cars, so you shouldn't be looking to rebuild unless you want to tune it heavily - omho.

Good luck.

[peterg]

Doesn't sound like oil surge was the problem... there was already an oil leak before he tracked it so there's no knowing what had happened to this engine before he bought the car.

[Jenko]

My advice would be to go to the scrapyard and pick up a replacement silvertop, make some modification/replace the sump then experiment. Last you want to be doing it putting in a brand.new engine and crossing your figures that you've sorted the oil surge issues.

most engines will outlast production cars, so you shouldn't be looking to rebuild unless you want to tune it heavily - omho.

Good luck.

Agree - You can pick up a zetec at a scrapyard for 150 quid....Just grab one chuck it in and see what happens - I took apart a 90000 mile silvertop and it was basically in perfect condition....This is the beauty of these sort of standard engines.....Going to a black top (off the top of my head), I think you need different engine mount, a reverse water pump, alternator bracket (I think it needs moving). Cost would be IRO 1000 all in.

[BEN99W]

I opted to stick with a silver top when I replaced my engine, as much because a newer, ie blacktop engine would require more stringent emissions control (this may or may not apply to you). I managed to find a nice, low mileage one at a bargain price, but zetecs will take huge mileages without wear.

what sump do you have fitted? I've had oil starvation in the past, but not since fitting a raceline wet sump.

Ben

[Cleggy the Spyder Man]

been knocking around on this forum for four years or so and dont really remember anyone saying that they have managed to destroy their zetec engine

sounds like oil has been run low, the engine was very old or the design of the sump baffling is questionable - which asks the question did the oil pressure gauge read low or the light come on when cornering?

somebody will correct me if I am wrong but I dont see the need to dry sump a standard-ish zetec - unless maybe you are running stick slicks?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Even then Cleggy, the Raceline wet sump is so good, it's debatable if a DS set up is really needed, unless you're trying to wring every last ounce of horsepower out of the engine too.

[SootySport]

I think you were just unlucky with your engine, unless you know exactly where the engine came from and how it was looked after it is a lottery on how long it will last. I can't see how a small oil leak caused the demise of it, more to do with the crank lubrication or the oil pump failing. These mass market engines can run for 200000miles with basic maintainance and regular oil changes.

Whichever type of Zetec you fit next do some basic checks and renew the simple things that cause so much grief such as a cambelt kit, oil pump, filter, failing gaskets and of course any undue noises have to be investigated.

May your next powerplant be trouble free for sometime yet. Good luck.

[Tim Reid]

Someone called for me

I know your pain, I have been there and it's not fun. I cannot find the old posts I did where I listed all the options, costs and positive and negatives but there are lots of choices along these lines:

1. Re-build your engine in the same/standard spec.

2. Re-build your engine to a higher spec.

3. Buy another used engine.

4. Buy a refurbish engine.

5. Buy a new engine.

Personally I wanted something which I knew the history and wouldn't let me down again (no guarantees in life!) Mine was a factory built car from 1996 with a silvertop on webber carbs and alpha ignition. I assumed it had a baffelled sump and didn't notice the swinging oil pressure gauge until it was too late and I turned the big end bearings.

Brand new Blacktop Engine (including flywheel, clutch, original intake and exhaust manifolds) from http://www.powertorque.co.uk which I collected for an astonishing £650 inc VAT (Stoneleigh show special price)

To protect my new investment I bought one of the best sumps you can buy for the zetec... Raceline's wet sump It's a work of art and holds the original 5L of oil which many cut down sumps don't.

Raceline do an iddler pully kit so that the water pump will turn the right way.

A new intake side engine mount from Westfield (the old post way quickly cut off by Peter and simply a hole drilled for the new mount, no welding needed).

I could have stopped there but if your taking the engine out and would to protect your investment there are a few more things to consider...

ARP Rod bolts (around £60, we had the sump off anyway so easy quick job to do)

New spriggot bearing (under £15, you might as well while having the engine out)

Raceline water rail (protection from knocking the ford plastic thermostat housing on the chassis rail, lots of people don't worry, personal choice)

The carbs, ignition, exhaust bolted straight on with no trouble. I have even been using the same tune for road miles but it's worth getting it checked and tweaked if needed.

I spent around £2k but bought lots of extra bits to do the job fully.

Once you get your membership registered I am happy for you to contact me directly to answer any questions.

[markcoopers]

I can not comment on why it went bang, but I ran many zetec silver top on track with a scholar engineering sump on R888 Toyo tyres and never had any issues with surge or pressures. Dry sump not needed, well proven baffled and short sump is in my opinion mandatory for a track car.

Black top will need new mapping as well, so add that into the cost.

[dombanks]

if your going to the hasstle of changing to a black top and the associated bits is it worth considering the ST170 engine?

It might be more hassle than its worth tho.

[EPC]

Black top sounds like a lot of money compared to a scrap yard engine for very little gain to me.

I agree TimDave 25 those are the options, I think the safest bet is to by a scrap yard engine take it apart have a look and build it back up to the spec I want, that way I should have enough for a Raceline sump looks awesome. On thier site they note that you should recalibrate your dip stick to the new sump. That got me wondering if this is the problem. If this was never done on the new sump on my engine how do you know if the oil level is correct? you can't!

Will also purchase a oil pressure gauge after all this any recommendations?

I'll keep you posted guys thanks for your input.

Also next payday I will be a member! Thanks for the nudges!!!!

[peterg]

Will also purchase a oil pressure gauge after all this any recommendations?

Yes, get a mechanical one not an electrical one

[fatbaldbloke]

The sump is absolutely crucial on the Zetec silvertop. It needs to be shortened and baffled correctly for a fore and aft installation. The standard sump is for a transverse fitment. Dunnell, Scholar, Raceline, all good. Don't go for a home modified sump, the layout of the internals is absolutely critical. If you look at any of the above you'll see it's quite fussy in how it's arranged.