Terry Everall Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I hope I am not repeating myself but when I joined Nottingham SCC for 2 years in Year 1 I was the fastest NSCC car at 8 events when 8 counted towards their Harry Driver trophy ( Richard Carroll won it the previous year in the ex Mark Smith car). I was outright the fastest irrespective of class including jedis and other single seaters Using target times I came 8th overall in the main championship!!!!!! Thats why I have stuck with WSCC and will drive no matter what the points scoring system is. By the way Class G is the future!!!!!!!!!!! Ask Tim Nunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Terry It does sound as if the targets were unrealistic, You would expect a single seater To have a stiffer TT. On the whole our TTs are based on actual times recorded by Westfields of a particular spec. None are made up, all have been achieved. If our championship is just based on outwright speed then realistically only Class G or H can win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Steve As far as I can see you have not come up with a single valid reason for dislikeing or the problem on the day for TTs Stuart I don't have to. I, as have other previous competitors evaluated the situation presented and voted with my feet. In the past years for the few quid it costs to enter the SS, I may have entered just to give me the opportunity to do the odd event if I wanted to, and support the club. This year as last I haven't. The series I believe was at inception a low cost club series for owners of road going Westfields, with classes A,B,C and D. Not a check book series. It is now of no interest to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Steve No . you dont have to But How can we evaluate the situation without knowing your reasons (other than you just dont like it) in order to try and make a fair championship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Food for thought.................................. I use 3 sisters as an example only cos I was in G and know what happened in H First- I still cant understand why Class D had a 46.08 target and Class F had 46.43 (slower) target. Due to the fact that Tim Nunn beat the class G target of 43.78 and did 43.48 which also beats the class H target of 43.63 this means that next year class H will have a STE! So in 2013 the winner in class H will score an automatic 100 points no matter how quick they drive Seems it will take a few years to sort this out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Jones Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The series I believe was at inception a low cost club series for owners of road going Westfields, with classes A,B,C and D. Not a check book series. I am not convinced that TTs have had any impact on the money invested/squandered in cars, thats very much pre-dates TTs, I suspect there has been an increase in entry/tyres fees needed to reach a competitive number of events which should probably be looked at in light of the current economic conditions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Steve No . you dont have to But How can we evaluate the situation without knowing your reasons (other than you just dont like it) in order to try and make a fair championship How can we evaluate ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Terry Class D did not have a TT before the event John has set the TT at the event because no time existed for a Class D car ( if the classes had not been restructured last year Johns car would be in F because of tyres) This will be the TT for Class D next year. Barry lowered the Class F TT so that will stand for next year As for your G/H predicament , It is more difficult, Perhaps , as has been suggested , a higher class must = the lower class time to score 100 points , but I think this needs more time/thought to evaluate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Steve If you have proper reasons to dismiss TTs then if you present them WE all can agree or disagree. At the moment all I or anyone else can assertain is that you just dont like them , regardless if they are fair/better or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I reiterate a dogs dinner Why don't the SSOG just admit defeat and drop this ridiculous scoring system. Stuart there is nothing personal in this, in fact I think you are a great guy, but you are flogging a dead horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhc Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Stuart. Top marks for your defence of target times. But I am surprised that no one else has come to your assistence. So can I ask you or anyone else why target times are deemed to be so much better than first pass the post. And please don't use the word fair, as already agreed, motorsport is not fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Mick thanks for direct question The reasons that i think TTs are better ( these are just my opinions) for starters 1) they allow a single competitor , in any WSCC class , to challenge for o/A honours 2) they make no difference to any results achieved on the day at an event. 3) they stop a single competitor ,in an unsupported class, walking away with the O/A championship by virtue of easy wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Navin Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Rob- Do you think TTs would have made any differeence to our enjoyment that year/ I have never realy run under the target time idea so cant make an informed decission on that mate Im my view though this is deeper than target times. Over the years rules have been manipulated to get the right result for the right class or driver or in some cases to stop the right result for the right car. This seems like its lead to,a situation that has its fair ammount of compromises and i dont know if the target time is a part of that whole situation or not Maybe time to take stock and see exactly what has changed since the days we were in a. I think the two biggest clues are already in the thread and nothing to do with tt As most of you know i know spend my time driving round the forrests and everytime i have been there i have left the event knowing where i was in the championship cos its easy to understand :-) Edited April 19, 2012 by Rob Navin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 There are good points here by many but MLC - your trotting out the usual without reasoned argument. The original point scoring system developed by Tom Green required 5 competitors for maximum points. I do not believe there were any classes at 3 sisters with sufficient entrants therefore for the old system to work. In the past as soon as an event couldnt get enough competitors it killed the event for the next year. Over the years the loss of the WSCC has then led to the loss of events. The SSOT take the time to run each scoring system through several years worth of results to see the actual impact. No scoring system is perfect. What worked in 2001 isnt fit for purpose in 2012. Numbers are down in sprinting and unless your suggesting the WSCC implementing target times has reduced entrants in other championships, this is due to other factors. The reality is that the old scoring system had too few entrants to allow entrants on the day to be compared reasonably for many years ahead of their implementation. Edit: I have cleaned up my posts after Mid Life Crisis has removed personal accusations and slurs directed at me. Note these were deleted by him and not any moderator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Steve Adrian has presented reasons why the old scoring system would struggle to work today. Instead of counteracting with valid reasons you seem to be just rambling incoherantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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