SteveD Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 rocket rabbit said As much as it isn't the greatest idea, it is only a small hole and the cage has a factor of safety built into it. In addition, you have a fastner going through the hole so lines of stress can be conducted thusly and no concentrators are apparent. Remember also that your chassis is full of holes. I can't see why you'd be knocked back by scrutineering or why you should worry. yes cages are certified, any modification like drilling a hole would need to be done by the OEM of the cage and be re tested, otherwise its scrap metal because of this mr rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_rabbit Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 So if he goes back to custom cages, he can get his cage recerfitied and happy days? That's not too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 So if he goes back to custom cages, he can get his cage recerfitied and happy days? That's not too bad. who says they will certify it ,or its ok where its been drilled ,it would just be scrap as its been changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cast iron Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 if you change the bar/cage in anyway ie weld bracket's to it or drill holes in it you have changed it from the design submitted to the FIA/MSA so any certification it had would be void having said that if all your doing is sprinting or hill's in a road going class you don't need a certified bar anyway his original question was asked of racers, hence my answer was based on proper racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 you have to have a hole drilled in it so they can check the thickness of the bar sure it was in blue book may be wrong though I agree. i'm sure its in there somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Enginearin Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 My Fury cage passed scrutineering for 750mc RGB championship with holes for rain light mounting in the top of the main hoop and holes for mounting the fire extinguisher pull handle on the vertical leg of the main roll bar. This was not a cage with a ROPS certificate though. Not sure of the impact of drilling these, as they do not use material that corresponds with the blue book minimum requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewart pickles Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 his original question was asked of racers, hence my answer was based on proper racing what would you know about proper racing :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAIGR Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Do they take into consideration the masses of holes you have to drill in your chassis to fit the darn things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_rabbit Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 who says they will certify it ,or its ok where its been drilled ,it would just be scrap as its been changed Why would it be scrap? Scrutineering can sign off on the car despite it not having a ROPS certificate. According to blue book anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 ask yourself a caged cage costs between £800 and £1000 depending on how you buy them or roger rabbit can you get them for £25 like your paint jobs or have a mate that can knock you one up as a favour ,but to me thats a f***** expensive chance your taking drilling your cage is it not ,why drill a hole in a cage if you do not have to ,to start with scrutineers are a law unto themselves anyone knows that but for circuit racing the cage needs to be certified and modifying it is a no no ,there are lots of things in the blue book and different ways to interperit them and things are only going to get tighter every year now with more and more focus on saftey , but again why run the risk of changing and adding a weak spot or spots to your cage by drilling it when its summat that may have to save your life ,but by all means if you feel like drilling holes in your cage ,go for it ,its not me sat in your car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echoz Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Why exactly would you need to drill holes in your cage? this isnt that bl**** saving weight crap again is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I've read the Blue Book, and cannot find anything saying a roll bar or roll cage has to have a hole drilled in it, for inspection or otherwise. What it DOES say, in the penultimate sentence of para. 1.2.2 of section K is: "Any modification to a homologated safety cage is prohibited." Drilling a hole in a homologated safety cage is a modification. It is therefor not permitted, and will therefor invalidate the certification of the cage, I would suggest. Further, if you made a modification to a certified cage, then went back to the manufacturer to ask them to recertify the cage, they would laugh at you. First they couldn't do it. The certification is issued by the MSA, not the manufacturer ( or the FIA in the case of international homologation). But secondly, no sensible manufacturer is going to be so stupid as to put their head on the proverbial chopping block by saying their cage is still going to save your life in a rollover accident when you've made changes to it which may weaken it, however slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2rrr Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Not sure whether the MSA/FIA have specified or not an inspection hole but that thickness checking task can simply be done with a small ultrasonic thickness tester, no need to drill and you can check the whole thing not just the one area, maybe they haven't got there yet. As for racing cages I wouldn't dream of drilling into it in any shape or form. Yes I have done for my road car, RAC roll over bar for a brake light and half hood and I have taken that decision based on my own views. If the rule states for racing, which it does as per post #27 no drilling or mods then that what it means. You invalidate any certification or homologation aspects and you can be booted off the track, quite simple rule is rules I'm afraid but thats why they are there to protect us from ourselves. If you slip through scrutineering and have these dangerous mods on your car then you are only fooling yourself and if you knowingly contribute to someones demise by a negligent action the legal implications could be very interesting. As for the holes in the chassis, not going to bother and comment. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappers Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Thanks for everyone's reply. I've suggested to soft bits that is probably best not to drill the bar if you want to go racing. I don't know what specific racing the were talking about, but I think it was for a car with a rollbar rather than a cage because the query related to fitting of turnbuckles to enable a half-hood to be attached and tensioned without having to go all the way to the rear stay mounting points like Caterham's do, which is not easy on an FW body car. That's why I have drilled the stays in the Caged T45 rollbar - but mine's only a roadgoing car. When I eventually get a Caged cage then I don't think I'd drill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Pete Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Back on the MSA regs, there are two options: 1) A cage that has been inspected, approved and certified - in this instance it can not be modified i any way and remain certified. It also becomes invalid if the certification sticker is missing. 2) A cage built to the MSA regs, for example the Playskool cage. These can be modified as along as they still comply with the various MSA regs which generally cover the type/thinkness of metal, joints, fixings and basic design of triangulation etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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