ray wilson Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 I'm thinking of converting to throttle bodys, but what and where do you fit a swirl-pot ?, I'v only got a standard tank, do I need to run a return fuel pipe back to tank. So if anybody that has done this task and are willing to advise me on this matter, I would be greatfull of any advice given Yours thanfully Ray Quote
Mark Stanton Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 Not done it myself, but I think if you do a search you might find some info - which seems to be either adapting your current fuel tank or buying a new one with a built in swirl pot or purchasing a separate small swirl tank which is fed from main tank Depends on what you got and your intentions - somebody will be along soon Quote
Leon B Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 I can tell you wat little i know. You will need to run an additional fuel line to feed the fuel back to the tank. I have a new style Westy tank with a built in swirl pot. You will need to fit the swirl pot in the engine bay somewhere, im sure someone else will tell you more. You will also need an injection fuel pump which needs to be located below the fuel tank. What t.b kit were you thinking of? Quote
adam1330 Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 Does anyone know if you can have two swirl pots? I was wondering if this could be a way of eliminating fuel surge when cornering, would the second swirl pot hold enough fuel to last for a few seconds until you have finished cornering? Does this make sense? Sorry for the thread hijack, but i've been wondering this for a while. Quote
CharliePsycho Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 Why not put the swirl pot with the original fuel pump?? That way the return pipe is really short (i.e. you don't have to run another pie the length of the chassis) Provided the original fuel line is up to the pressure it should be fine I would have thought... ...© Quote
ray wilson Posted November 10, 2003 Author Posted November 10, 2003 Thanks for rapid responce,I'm going for Genvey bodys and Omex, but not sure on size body yet. Cheers Quote
Blatman Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 You will need to fit the swirl pot in the engine bay somewhere Nope, sorry. If you have a non injection tank, you fit the swirl pot as close to the tank as possible, ie, next to it. You use the original electric pump to lift fuel from the fuel tank to the swirl pot. The swirl pot feeds the injection pump, which is next to it. The return from the pressure regulator, which is in the engine bay, and is low pressure, should be fed in to the main tank, not the swirl pot, despite it being easier to engineer a return in to the swirl pot. You return the fuel from the regulator back to the tank because the fuel can heat up, and returning it to the main tank gives it a chance to cool down again. I have heard of returns being tee'd in to the filler neck of the tank, although I'd prefer to make a feed in to the tank, so that I could position it in a more convenient/appropriate place. Or, buy an injection tank with a swirl pot already fitted....just not the Westfield tank with the swirl pot on one side.....read on to see why....... Does anyone know if you can have two swirl pots? I was wondering if this could be a way of eliminating fuel surge when cornering, would the second swirl pot hold enough fuel to last for a few seconds until you have finished cornering? Does this make sense? No. it doesn't, unless you have the Westfield injection tank with the built in swirl pot which is on one corner of the tank. It's a crap design, and a second swirl pot, with the above described lift pump arrangement, and an appropriately sized swirl pot will eliminate fuel surge......it's a lot of plumbing, and obviously requires two fuel pumps, at least 3 fuel filters, and careful fitting of all the gubbins........ Quote
thos Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 Does anyone know if you can have two swirl pots? I was wondering if this could be a way of eliminating fuel surge when cornering, would the second swirl pot hold enough fuel to last for a few seconds until you have finished cornering? Does this make sense? No. it doesn't, unless you have the Westfield injection tank with the built in swirl pot which is on one corner of the tank. It's a crap design, and a second swirl pot, with the above described lift pump arrangement, and an appropriately sized swirl pot will eliminate fuel surge......it's a lot of plumbing, and obviously requires two fuel pumps, at least 3 fuel filters, and careful fitting of all the gubbins........ So, the Westfield injection tank alone wont eliminate fuel surge ? Is there a fuel tank that will eliminate fuel surge ? Either from Westfield or someone else ? I'm currently running on Ford injection (Zetec) and I'm experiencing fuel surge, I want to eliminate the problem before moving to TB's. A nice tidy tank replacement would be nice, but not if its not the best solution. Tom Quote
moomin Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 The current Westfield injection tank won't eliminate fuel surge It will reduce surge on right handers - i.e. roundabouts should be ok, in theory most circuits run clockwise (more rights than lefts), etc - since the integrated "swirl pot" is on the nearside of the tank. Blatters is right, the real and proper solution is separate swirl pot and additional lift pump. Westfield used to position the integrated swirl pot in the middle of the tank, which would seem to make more sense, but that just ends up with surge on both left and right handers as the fuel gets a bit low... So I don't think an integrated one is really the answer. Unfortunately a separate one carries and weight and plumbing complication penalty : ( I will be looking into sorting this over the winter myself so that I don't have a repeat of the problems I had on the first long left hander at Curborough Though I must add, I have never experienced any surge on the road, only on track (both left and right handers). moomin Quote
Blatman Posted November 11, 2003 Posted November 11, 2003 Westfield used to position the integrated swirl pot in the middle of the tank, which would seem to make more sense, but that just ends up with surge on both left and right handers as the fuel gets a bit low... So I don't think an integrated one is really the answer. Unfortunately a separate one carries and weight and plumbing complication penalty Rather depends on the size/depth of the centrally mounted swirl pot.... My green car has a modified standard tank (as far as I can tell, 'cos I didn't build it....) with a central, circular swirl pot, which seems to have been welded on to the bottom of the tank. It looks a bit like a frying pan (a deep one) without the handle......... Anyway, I *don't* get fuel surge, even when the fuel light is on (less than a gallon left....). I'll bet a penny to a pound (I'm betting, 'cos I've never seen it....) that although my swirl pot is 6-9 inches across, and pretty deep, the "filler" hole will only be about an inch or two in diameter, and smack bang in the middle of a slight depression in the tank floor, right in the middle of the swirl pot. Big enough, and low enough to fill quickly, but far enough away from the sides to prevent fuel from leaving the swirl pot during cornering......... Quote
moomin Posted November 12, 2003 Posted November 12, 2003 Good point Blats. As I typed my previous post I was kind of thinking the back of my head that I'm sure an integrated one could be made to work. I don't know what the baffling looks like inside the tank I have, but what you have seems to make sense. Welding pre-loved petrol tanks is a bit of a mare though isn't it? Don't you have to use LOTS of argon in the tank to avoid "incident"? moom Quote
Blatman Posted November 12, 2003 Posted November 12, 2003 Yup... Although, I'm sure the chap who built mine had planned what he was going to do well before the tank saw any combustable liquid....... Quote
Matt Seabrook Posted November 12, 2003 Posted November 12, 2003 The return from the pressure regulator, which is in the engine bay, and is low pressure, should be fed in to the main tank, not the swirl pot, despite it being easier to engineer a return in to the swirl pot Sorry mate the return has to be returned to the swirl pot. If you send it back to to tank and not the swirl pot the injection pump will empty the swirl pot. The carb red top pump will not deliver fuel fast enough. See here Quote
Blatman Posted November 12, 2003 Posted November 12, 2003 Hmmmmm........can't see it myself, unless the swirl pot is a little undersized. A red top pump will easily flow more gallons per hour than an injected car can/will use, so I don't think it will be an issue....... Besides, if your scenario was correct, the swirl pot wouldn't need an overflow back to the main tank, 'cos it'll always be less than full...... Quote
Matt Seabrook Posted November 12, 2003 Posted November 12, 2003 A red top pump will easily flow more gallons per hour than an injected car can/will use, so I don't think it will be an issue No the red top will flow 35 GPH the injection pump on my car will flow 44GPH regardless of the engine being on or not. As soon as the ignition is switched on the injecton pump will pump fuel round the circuit and back to the tank. The only thing that stops it will be the ecu when it has primed. The injection pump will flow 20% more fuel than the Red Top pump this will empty the swirl pot in no time no matter how big it is Quote
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