do you think they are right?

[Dommo]

I think in some ways, the government has been fair in protecting what has been accrued so far and even the age that it can be claimed. My final salary pension was closed this year and what I had accrued has been protected, but I'll have to work longer to get at it. No big deal, I wasn't expecting it to last until I retired anyway. I'm on career average now and working it out, it'll pretty much halve what I'll receive in the future.

Pensions do need reforming, and I expect only the most blinkered public sector workers would argue against it. I don't support the strikes, but I respect those who attended a picket line or a rally.

My dis-respect goes to the union leaders, particularly the one Mooch alluded to on newsnight last night!

[lippydave]

What I fail to understand, is the collective grouping of "Public Sector Workers"

A nurse, fireman, or a policeman works under very different conditions to (for example) an office clerk in the local council offices.      

If we are to deem all public sector workers as having identical needs surely all private sectors workers could be categorised thus too?

The private sector, of which I am a self-employed (Limited Company) member of, is often outraged at the pure unadulterated wastage and p*ssing up the wall of our hard earned tax revenues on dumb initiatives and inappropriate salaries.Whilst the private sector finance the fat pension schemes for the public sector they are erstwhile struggling with their own pensions...

There was a recent tale of a man in Birmingham employed by the local council to change bulbs in roadside lamps on a part time basis.For this wondrous service he was paid ca. 94,000 pounds sterling per annum. Un-f*cking-believable isn't it?     There were numerous other examples including grossly overpaid binmen milking bonus schemes etc.

Now I don't blame the workers, if someone offered me a contract at 94k to change bulbs I'd snap it up too!  

I don't believe you can truly understand someones situation unless you have walked a mile in their shoes (so to speak), but some of the blatant excesses and downright leftie militant union representation of the public sector does absolutely feck all to endear any public sector increases in the eyes of the taxpayer at large.

If you are portraying all public sector workers as the same, then public perception will surely be such that each and every one is a willing participation of gross extortion of taxes from the private sector under false pretences?

Surely to ensure that the right people receive the perks and correct pensions they need to diversify and strike (sic) their own deals...Unless of course they enjoy the bully boy tactics of an anachronistic, outmoded, monolithic, hypocritical left-wing bodies of the trade unions? (Whose top executives receive pay packages that would shame the greediest of private corporations..)      

I have many friends who work in the public sector who I like and admire, but a lot of them are very reticent about their perks and benefits, but more than willing to whine about their pension shortfall......

.Welcome to 2011 feckers. wake up, smell the coffee, and put yer own ****ehouse in order before you ask me to finance yer cushy retirement!!!      

[Vinny's Westie]

The main problem with private pensions is the fact that your money is managed by private profit making companies with their monthly charges and the Government having the 'right' to have control over tax, legislation and anything else in connecfion with your private pension.

In public systems there are no charges as such and the results are generally far better at the end.

In reality everyone likes to think that everyone else should pay as we all think we are not well enough off to pay, but we need to change our perceptions and realise that we need to save for our future retirement independently of the state and take control of our destiny, be it through a pension scheme or investing in your own choice(houses/savings etc).  I think the public sector pension schemes should be stopped along with private schemes, which make providers very wealthy, and a standard approach of fend for yourself being taken.

As for the strikers, they should realise the benefits they have, go back to work and be grateful for a job in the current climate, trouble is people are never happy and always think its someone else's fault.

[lippydave]

From last year, but still appropriate...

Public sector job choices in Brum

[XTR2Turbo]

 I think the public sector pension schemes should be stopped along with private schemes, which make providers very wealthy.

Spot on

The strikes are diverting from the main problem - the poor pension provision for most of the private sector and alternatives for available for anyone other than the public sector.

This is why the public sector are seeming to get so little support and the government are so delighted that the strike went ahead.

Almost all the tax efficient pension schemes rely on money being managed by a professional.

Look at the returns on most ISA accounts - they are crap and the amount you can put in each year is tiny.  If I have other savings I am taxed on income.

Buy an investment property I am taxed. Earn more than £150k a year and put into a pension no tax relief like there used to be.

If you have a personal pension plan you are very limited on what you can invest in.

The fees are often shockingly high and not linked to any performance metric. and for many funds the performance largely indifferent.

This is the problem that needs addressing.

I think in Polland they have a public asset backed public pension scheme where 10% is deducted from source like income tax but it is managed and invested at source. That is why there is no difficulty with small firms in poland getting seed capital and start up funds and you never see them on AIM or other smaller capital markets. They have loads of access to capital at home.

We badly need to implement a similar system for public pensions with an opt in for private sector also.

[Dibby]

What I fail to understand, is the collective grouping of "Public Sector Workers"

A nurse, fireman, or a policeman works under very different conditions to (for example) an office clerk in the local council offices.      

If we are to deem all public sector workers as having identical needs surely all private sectors workers could be categorised thus too?

Very true, no doubt the police and firemen have a tough job but there is a sector of public workers not in the more physical line of work.

It's the likes of the local council planning department we are having fun with trying to get a construction scheme off the ground right now. They disapear from the office every efternoon on 'site visits'. They sure as hell haven't shown any interest in our site despite numerous requests. They are on good wages, no doubt on a good pension scheme and do very little for it. If a private engineering firm were to operate with no timescales, decision making or accountability it would fail but councils are happy to prop up this wastage.

Also worked with this council's civil engineering and drainage departments who were also the epitome of the lazy, ball-scratching old boys club union stereotypes who are giving the whole pension movement a bad name.

There should be equality in pensions and conditions for private and public engineering firms. Had my annual pension review, I'm 31 and my retirement age on all the forms is 75! If I have to do it, why can't they?

[funbobby]

As said I dont think it s the front line people like Nurses, Policemen and women and Firemen etc that people are getting at guys. It the flexi time cushy desk job lot on a four o clock finish types thats annoying people. All they are being asked is to work to similar (not equal though) terms and conditions the private sector do. Cant fault the government for that.

[Carl]

I do feel sorry for the Public sectors workers, however the private sector has been going through pain since 2009.

What irritates me is the Unions leaders (with their high salaries and good pensions) are using this to fight and try to bring down the Government.

I can't help but feel that the Public sectors workers are just pawns in a much larger battle.

Shameful  

[Dibby]

Very true Carl, and it's not aimed at any particular government.

It's the constant grumble of 'Boooo, down with {Insert current ruling party here}'

Something has to give becase none of us want to end up like Greece, the current world economy is a big piece of s**t pie and we all have to take a bite

[D7PNY]

here you go

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm

What is more startling is that using HRMC's Table 3.5 (Tax payers only), it is clear that 7% of the population earn over £50,000 a year and contribute over 47% of the income tax for the whole tax paying population. Also, less than 1% of the population earn over £150,000 a year and these people contribute over 22% of total income tax.

So when the Unions are saying that their menbers pay for their benefits, that the poor are paying a diproportionate proportion of their income to solve the economic problems and 'rich' should pay more - it's frankly nonsense.

And don't forget the figures above are just tax payers. It does not include the 20% of families with no tax payer.

This man speaks sense!

[GreigM]

I do feel sorry for the Public sectors workers, however the private sector has been going through pain since 2009.

What irritates me is the Unions leaders (with their high salaries and good pensions) are using this to fight and try to bring down the Government.

I can't help but feel that the Public sectors workers are just pawns in a much larger battle.

Shameful  

This is my problem with it - its basically a union protest against a Conservative government, and I feel the workers are being pawns.

It also shows the complete disregard the unions have for the the rest of the population/economy and to a very large extent their own members.  They should be taking a step back and realising we're on the precipice of a real economic disaster - standards of living reversing by 100 years type of disaster - REAL poverty in the UK with mass job losses in the public sector is a very possible outcome.  Regardless of who is to blame for this chaos, the basic fact is the whole country needs to pull in one direction to make sure it doesn't turn into a real S*** sandwich, and by striking you simply aggravate the very delicate balance which the nations finances are in by causing turbulence and upset.  Its also a good opportunity for the UK to emerge a stronger and more leading world player again, as the Euro countries struggle to rescue their currency from the anchors which are greece, spain, italy, ireland etc etc - this could ensure all our children grow up in a strong and prosperous Britain.

So my message to the public sector would be that I feel their pain, but now is simply not the correct point in history to strike.  Take it up again once the country is off its knees - you have to feel some of the collective pain just now, then when its all over and no-doubt Labour will be back in power, then open the discussions to have the situation reversed and compensated for if necessary with a compliant and sympathetic government.

If there ever was a point in history where the (somewhat) Liberal JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" applies, for the UK that time is probably now.  If the country survives this, they your jobs will survive.  If the country fails we're all doomed.

[Hammy]

I was public sector but recently left.  The job I was in (and that for several others) has now been regraded to step pay down reducing top of grade salaries by a few £k, and will also reduce pensions contributions that way too.  All new recruits at my old place now do not get a final year salary scheme any more. This aspect seems to have been kept quiet, but is also going on, and in line with everyone else for pensions.

I have a feeling that the government puts out noises about Public pension salaries in an effort to alter public opinion, this has happened before with benefits to turn opinion first so that they can be reduced. The Unions do the same

I just think we are being manipulated in much the same was we are for fashion and I'm not sure we know the real truth.

Many of the public  pensions were totally funded by contribution, but the governement never put the money to one side for investment  and spent it, so now they can't pay it back.  I do feel sorry for people who joined a scheme with a defined written down contract, then to be told that this will not be kept. Its really about those who have contributed for a number of years and knowing they were in a good scheme made no other provision and now its too late.

Imagine putting your savings in the bank and then the bank saying they cant afford to give you all your money back.

This aspect seems unfair whatever your "now" view  is  on whether the amounts are too high or not.  Further I can recall in the good times when investments went well that  for  a scheme I was in the advice was to cut contribtions as the funds were too rich !!!! Governemnt and companies also tried to take money out  when they had excess funds.

I agree that something has to give, but its interesting how there is no sympathy for those losing out and it could be handled with a degree of honesty. It should have been tackled years ago for it got this bad .

[Captain Colonial]

Oops... Clarkson opens his trap again

[GreigM]

If anyone watched the whole segment (rather than badly edited sections) it was obvious clarkson was being ironic - big fuss over nothing

[RedditchJay]

CLARKSON has said striking workers should be rounded up and shot......

my best friend was in labour last night for 6 hours didnt see anyone.... no porters / midwives / doctors...... waters broke, blood and snot everywhere and then she was sent home and told to phone an ambulance.... ******S.... peoples lives at risk and emotions....