do you think they are right?

[tex]

as per title. Are they right to protest or do you think its not right?

Myself. My pension was mismanaged a few years ago by the company and we all ended up paying more than double for the same pension. So i do undertand the pain public sector people are feeling. But how to find the right solution..

[perksy]

Well i was out today, so no point in asking me as i'm biased    

One thing i would say before folks start judging us is

Don't believe all the Boll*x that you read in the papers about our 'gold plated' pensions

They ain't, They really ain't...

In fact if you read the full government proposals you might well have been showing the same level of support that we received today from alot of the general public

Which was very good where i was tbh      

Also before folks start saying we're over paid etc

I have to provide an on-call service for 16 hours (including through the night) for £17.70 stand-by

Anybody else fancy doing that    

[V 8]

Nope. Times are hard. Get back to work and:-

a) be thankful for a job and a generous retirement package

b) stop hurting those that provide and finance it for you.

[adamnreeves]

[Mark (smokey mow)]

b) stop hurting those that provide and finance it for you.

I may work for a LA but my salary (and therefore my pension) is paid for wholy by additional fee income we generate and not in any part by the council tax payers.

Our department of 6 each year puts £100K back into the council through recharges that props up departments that overspend and therefore this assists in keeping the council tax low.  

FWIW whist I am a member of UNISON I opted to cross the picket line this morning and worked as usual, unlike my colleagues who were all on strike.  Becuase of that nobody was hurt or inconvenienced by our actions.

[stephenh]

Should someone in the public sector expect me to pay for my pension and for theirs, or should we each pay for our own? That is the question. Simples.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Should someone in the public sector expect me to pay for my pension and for theirs, or should we each pay for our own? That is the question. Simples.

Indeed, it's unfortunate that such a small percentage of the country actually choose to pay into a pension scheme.  In the long term we all end up paying for them through state pension.

The private company pension schemes where offered are comparable to the public sector pension scheme however, what needs to be addressed is the gap that exists to private pensions. And of course trying to encourage more of the population to pay into a pension in the first place.

[V 8]

b) stop hurting those that provide and finance it for you.

I may work for a LA but my salary (and therefore my pension) is paid for wholy by additional fee income we generate and not in any part by the council tax payers.

Our department of 6 each year puts £100K back into the council through recharges that props up departments that overspend and therefore this assists in keeping the council tax low.  

FWIW whist I am a member of UNISON I opted to cross the picket line this morning and worked as usual, unlike my colleagues who were all on strike.  Becuase of that nobody was hurt or inconvenienced by our actions.

Hear what you're saying Mark, which is admirable, but believe me, 6% does not provide you with the pension you will recieve. Defined benefit schemes are supported mostly by employer contributions. Respect and praise for crossing the picket lines.

[perksy]

Nope. Times are hard. Get back to work and:-

a) be thankful for a job and a generous retirement package

b) stop hurting those that provide and finance it for you.

Yes most of us are thankful to be in a job

I'm always happy clearing a 6" sewage pipe out, i'm sure you would be to  

But There's never a better time for the government to make change than during a recession    

Nearly all private sector employees earn more than we do for the same job spec

However, the pensions that we have at the moment help balance the package out

"The generous retirement package" isn't or it certainly won't be if the changes go ahead

Nobody wants to hurt anybody, strike action was the last thing we wanted

But after over 10 months of negotiations we've got knowhere

In fact the government haven't supplied all the figures req'd to sort the calculations out

Our particular pension doesn't go into a pension 'pot' it goes straight to the government

Who funnily enough can't balance the books

Although they seem to have no problem in sending billions of pounds overseas in 'foreign aid'

The government have already implemented a change in the way our pensions are calculated

This wasn't agreed with the unions and is subject to a judicial review

To be fair the FULL proposal need reading before folks start flaming, Not just what folks read in the papers...

[V 8]

Yep, tell that to the people who cant get a job. They will have more time to read it aswell! Sorry, it pisses me off.

[AidanPlace]

Ok, I'm a pensions professional and have to say that I'm dissapointed to see how the proposed changes to public sector pensions have been received. Some of this is down to the quality of information given by the unions to their members, some due to lack of decent PR by the govt, but some is also down to a lack of understanding of the schemes within the workforce.

Here are some of the facts about public sector pensions:

With the exception of the local government scheme there is no pension fund for public sector schemes. This means that todays pension's are paid for by todays contributions. The problem with this is that we are all living longer and there is a gap between what is paid in and paid out. in 2004 this gap was £1.8bn. Last year that gap had grown to £4.6bn and it is only going to get bigger as more people retire and live for longer. This is a long term position and not a result of the current ecconomic difficulties. The £4.6bn gap is being paid for by the taxpayer, you and me.

The unions would have you believe all retirement plans are changing however the benefit that public sector employees have earned to date are not changing. Current pensions are marked as SAFE  - same value same retirement age, and only the future pension earned will be on a different basis.

Public pensions are significantly more generous than private sector ones. The unions would have you believe the average public sector pension in £5,032pa, however this is an average figure that includes those people that only had a short length of service.

However, even if you use this figure, a worker in the private sector would need to have saved a fund of £220,000 to achieve the same level of benefit. The average pension fund in the private sector is £24,330.

The unions and some public sector employees would have you believe that public sector pensions are not better to make up for lower salaries. Independent studies now show that the public sector, on average, is paid 4% better than the equivalent job holder within the private sector.

The unions would have you believe that employees as being asked to pay double the contributions for less of a return. The civil service scheme has several rates of contibution. It is true that some members earning 60k plus will be asked to increase their contributions from 1.5 to 3.9%. However the equivalent employee in the private sector would need to contribute over 50% of salary over a 30 year career to get a similar level of benefit. If anyone is going to lose out it is the higher earners, however this is not clear without individual assessment of circumstances, and where an individual is relation to retirement.

Yes the government is asking public sector employees to work longer, and for that they have climbed down and the accrual rate for benefits is going to be a 60th scheme rather than an 80th and based on career average rather than final salary. What this means is that in many cases employees will not be worse off.

The bottom line is that we can't afford the pension as it is currently. Something has to change.

Aidan.

[FILFAN]

Also before folks start saying we're over paid etc

I have to provide an on-call service for 16 hours (including through the night) for £17.70 stand-by

Anybody else fancy doing that    

Sorry but I get top trumps on that. I have to provide on call cover for £7.50

Maybe you should strike if you have no option but when your still in talks I think it's out of order.

Times are hard for alot of people and the economy is half way down the toilet. So Im sorry but welcome to real life.

[SteveD]

Nope. Times are hard. Get back to work and:-

a) be thankful for a job and a generous retirement package

b) stop hurting those that provide and finance it for you.

this  

[greenandmean]

Can't get my head around why they think they should not work till they are 68 when the rest of us are expected to. Sick of hearing bleeding hearts saying I can't work till that age but expect construction workers (try working on a building site over winter not a warm office/classroom) foundry workers, farmers etc. to work on despite this been heavy manual work. Cannot teach kids at that age but ok to expect a 67 year old man to climb up a scaffold and do a days work.  

[jim_l]

Private sector workers including myself are seeing several years of flat pay, the demise of final salary pensions, requirement to make increasing contributions to their pension schemes, each and every one of them simply biting the bullet, understanding that we need to tighten our belts...

It feels unfair to me that I should have to undergo this, then at some point have to pay more tax (it is the only source) to protect public sector workers from the same - a double whammy.

It is fairly straighforward for me, you are going to live longer, your total pension payment in retirement will be significantly higher, we would like you to help us fund that,  

Alternatively I suppose we could make no attempt to balance the books, and become the next Greece, where they can't even afford to pay active public sector workors, never mind pensioners...