Section 59

[echoz]

i got a section 59 once, was trying to drive down a road between a nightclub and a kebab house, dunno what it is with p****d people but they stand in the road and refuse to move for the 2 tonnes of metal thats coming towards them, after stopping and beeping and waiting about a minute, i got fed up, put the clutch down floored the accelerator and mate an almighty racket as i let go of the clutch, let go of the accelerator as soon as the wheels stopped spinning, the crowd then moved out the way. jobs a good un. then half mile down the road a black corsa was following me, kept flashing his lights, bit of a sketchy moment, i turned into the local swimming pool car park to see if it followed, it did, so i hooned it round and as i exited he flew up beside me, twas the rozzers, needless to say i was glad to see them, as had thought someone was erratically following me round town to start an arguement. i made sure to point this out when i got out that it is unfair to chase someone round town in an unmarked car at night with no blue lights. received my section 59 gracefully as all things considered, i acted liek a d**k, and went on about my business. altho i was a bit peeved that they were sat by that crowd in an unmarked car and had seen me attempt to make the crowd of 100 people move before hand, although i appreciate the wasted effort of trying to make p****d people move.

moral of the story for me, if your gonna act like a d**k cause youre tired, dont wheel spin at a crowd of people itst he only time ive ever been warned by the police for driving/riding in my 5 years on the road

[FILFAN]

Nothing I have read in this thread possibly justifies a S59 - nothing.  Maybe doing him for speeding as he readily admitted - fine.

Makes my blood come to a simmer.

You clearly don't understand what a S.59 Notice is then if you would prefer a conviction over a warning  

Any way - lets not go there again - it became very boring the first time! (as does any of the weekly anti-police threads!)

I understand that It could cost me £150 pounds even though I may have done nothing wrong and only based on opinion not facts

[Martin Keene]

Im sorry to dig this up again but Id like to keep you all informed incase you ever happen to find yourself in a similar position.

I did visit the local police station the day after the event and asked for an explanation/justification for the S59. The WPC at the counter took my phone number and stated that the officer that had dealt with me (Hobby Bobby) would contact me that evening, but he never did.

Just by chance I mentioned what had happened to somebody the other day, they happen to know somebody that has access to the data base. It appears that nothing has been reported or recorded and so after many weeks of me being Pi**ed off and angry I can now relax a little.

I have never received any paperwork or notification at all, but if nothing else the experience has been an eye opener. So the moral of the story is, dont be as naive as I was and ask questions at the time!!!

Thanks to all for your comments and help, it is greatley appreciated.

When you say Hobby Bobby, do you mean you were stopped by a PCSO?

If so for future information PCSO's have no power to stop vehicles. As one of them found out to his expense when he stopped my traffic officer mate on his ZZR600...

[GALLY]

Yes indeed it was a Special officer, but there were full time police there too, they were dealing with the vehicle stopped prior to mine.

[FILFAN]

Yes indeed it was a Special officer, but there were full time police there too, they were dealing with the vehicle stopped prior to mine.

Oh they are all special

[kirkyboy5]

pcso's have the power to stop vehicles... maybe not for the every day to day traffic matters and offences but it falls under the terrorism act. If they were on a cordon for a terrorist matter then under the terrorist act they have the power to stop vehicles.

but in the case of Section 59's of the Road Traffic Act PCSO's can issue them for Anti Social behaviour, loud music, loud exhaust, wheelies, fast driving etc etc.. or anything that is considered to alarm or distress the public. But initially they cant stop the traffic so the bobby that was with them would have to do this then the PCSO can issue the Section 59 warning.

Hope this sheds a bit of light onto the matter

Dan

[echoz]

It's all down to interpretation, you could argue a perfectly executed wheelie within the speed limits is not causing a danger to anyone, even more so if its 2 in the morning on an emopty highway. likewise for loud music, why cant i listen to my music loud in my car whilst driving round town, likewise for exhaust pipe noise, it came out the factory like it, go take it up with them.

2 section 59's (maybe 3, canny renmemeber off top of my head) can result in your vehicle being crushed, and the section 59 is with the driver, so in theory you could be test driving a westfield that has a loud exhaust, get pulled by the rozzers and if they wanted to be real a*****s, could confiscate the car and crush it cuz youve previously had one, altho a section 59 only last a year then you are clear again.

[kirkyboy5]

Lads,

It's up to the officer whether or not to issue the Section 59. Its down to their judgement. If they believe it to be alarming or distressing in any way shape or form then they can lawfully issue a person a section 59. The VRM also goes onto the PNC (police national computer) so if this vehicle or person is caught acting in a way that causes alarm or distress to the public again then the vehicle can be seized.

And if caught after the initial warning of a section 59 the car wont be crushed (police dont have the power to crush vehicles used in a manner that is likely to cause alarm or distress) it will simply be seized and the only way to release the vehicle is by paying the release fee and producing all the necessary documents, driving license, MOT, insurance etc.

Dan

[Captain Colonial]

Its down to their judgement.

And herein lies the problem.  In their judgement, if Gooner's car or yours or mine is too loud, even if it is the same as every other Westy on the road that passed an IVA or MOT or came out of Kingswinford, they give you a S59. Judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal.  It's absolute BS of legislation and Gooner was the victim.

If I ever get pulled and threatened with a S59, I'll refuse it and take the ticket to court - at least there I'm considered innocent until proven guilty and can defend myself, without the threat of my car being seized for being fun in a built-up area.

[kirkyboy5]

Capt, i think your missing the point mate.

The section 59 isn't a ticket. Its a warning that goes on local police files and the PNC. The matter would not be held in court. The only way of contesting this is to file a complaint with the Police under an unlawful seizure.

This wouldn't go to court and it would be very difficult to prove to a supervisor that you didnt cause any member of the public alarm or distress.

Yes whilst I agree with you that it was unfair in this situation but Section 59's are a very useful  tool for the police to use and have helped many many members of the public. But the sad matter of it is that if you were driving down the road and were pulled over by a police officer then they have the power and legality to issue you with a Section 59 if they believe you are committing a nuisance or alarm and distress. This could be something as simple and petty as a loud exhaust (like all Westies).

Again I will say whilst I disagree with this whole situation I am just trying to educate and shed some light on Section 59's and the powers that they cover.

Hope it has helped

Dan

[Gromit]

QUOTE

Judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal.

Got it in one.

Section 59`s are so open to abuse, if the copper takes a dislike to you or your car for any reason you`ve got nothing to argue back against them with.

I`m defiantly not anti-police but systems like Section 59 give many people justification to hate the police.

[nikpro]

apart from, as you do not know me and have never met me, kindly do me the courtesy of not trying to tell me what I do or do not understand - it's judgemental and quite rude to say the least (not to mention inaccurate).

I've being trying to say that it's only a warning since page three of this topic - three pages later some posters still think the OP has got his time & date for the gallows!

We want the Police to be more effective and use discretion - however when they do against our beloved cars they should 'rot in hell'/ mini hitlers/ knobs in uniform etc. and the case should be heard by the highest court in the land!

God help some people when the 'spotty yoof' from down the road sits outside their house at 2am with his distorted halfords stereo blarring out and his fully legal big bore exhaust shatters the peice as he sits revving his car all night - all fully legal and nothing we can do sir - we got rid of S.59 Notices  

[kirkyboy5]

as I will say again I was trying to help some people understand the correct use and application of Section 59's.

I am not saying that the officer who gave out the Section 59 was in the right, he wasnt and he was wrong to do this.

Again I am trying to shed some light on an area that isnt understood very well. It's a bit of a dark area and all I was trying help the understanding of it.

Dan

[carpetstu]

Call me old-fashioned and a dinosaur,

Your old fashioned and a Dinosaur      

Now go and get a cup of Tea and relax    

[Captain Colonial]

Call me old-fashioned and a dinosaur,

Your old fashioned and a Dinosaur      

Now go and get a cup of Tea and relax    

Thank you - I'll be here all week - try the veal, and be sure to tip your waitress.

Off for a cuppa...maybe a biscuit too.