Section 59

[westy1800]

Blimey this ones got them rattled so, might as well chip in...

For info : The warning has to be given verbally, then you must also recieve a written copy of the warning, either in the form of a pre-completed ticket or laid out on police letter-headed paper.

You vehicle details will be stored on PNC and scrubbed after 12 months.

Oh yes, you cannot challenged this notice in the courts and yes, folk are correct, you can get your vehicle back at a cost of £150 (no VAT), paid in cash direct to the garage called to remove your vehicle.

Hope this helps.

Westy1800.

[Captain Colonial]

fortunately the Courts do still believe the word of two Police officers

Unless those two police officers working together are named Yates and Stephenson...

[jeff oakley]

This is another example of certain pressure groups making such a fuss that a law is passed. the problem is this bit of legislation is one which has a huge area of greyness about it. If you are speeding there is imperical evidence in most cases, here we have a law which requires no more than an opinion which is so vauge as to be laughable.

For example, you make a legal over take within the speed limit in your noisy but legal car, a member of the "lodge" neighbourhood watch (add which ever group or individula you want here) makes a complaint and a lone officer can issue a section 59. That makes them investigator, jury and judge which is not right. This is the danger in asking for something without it being specific, you get errors in application from some. as Nikpro says we are enthusiasts many others are not, many on here would complain if a kid on a moped was tearing up and down outside their house but dislike others complaining about them.

In all cases you can appeal to the IPCC if you feel it is unfair what has happened if everything you say is correct they may well feel you were badly treated and act accordingly.

[nikpro]

He could have got a warning that wasn't a 59. Serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

IME Verbal warnings serve no useful purpose 10 minutes later the person has forgotten all about it in general.

This is certainly not an attck on the OP but even by his own admission he is stating that after being served with the notice he can't guarantee 'keeping' to speed limits so what deterant would there have been with a verbal warning only?

If there was only a verbal warning issued then the people who hated cars would complain the Police aren't doing anything - they're just letting people off. (You can't please all of the people all of the time.)

A S.59 Notice is minor - please appreciate that - it's far less than a FP ticket or summonsed to Court.

[Captain Colonial]

A S.59 Notice is minor - please appreciate that - it's far less than a FP ticket or summonsed to Court.

Minor? You don't lose your car after two minor FPs, do you?  Did they say your car is a bit noisy, get it sorted within 7 days? No.  He's been hard treated.

[pistonbroke]

Personally I dont know of anyone who can gaurentee they can stick to the speed limit 100% of the time  

[lippydave]

Personally I dont know of anyone who can gaurentee they can stick to the speed limit 100% of the time  

Never driven a Nissan Serena diesel then?      

[perksy]

Remember the incident with the speeding shropshire policeman only too well    

.............wasn't this officer taken to Court by the Police  

.....Therefore he has been treated the same?

Don't accuse the Police of discriminating when they have dealt with an Officer in the same way as anyone else - If the CPS or Courts decide not to prosecute then that is not a Police matter surely?

He was and he got away with it    

This was then overturned by the high court

He was then found guilty of Dangerous driving at a second trial

But the judge said he'd 'suffered enough after 2 1/2 years of court proceedings'  and gave him an absolute discharge    

Anybody else would have been up s**t creek without a paddle

He was doing 159mph at one stage and 60 in a 30

to 'Familiarise' himself with the car

Obviously as the police are so well trained they can be impervious to any sudden change in road conditions or action of a pedestrian in front of them    

I know you lads stick together, but you must surely see that this bloke could have killed somebody        

Personnally feel that this incident raised many issues and led alot of folks to beleive that there really is one rule for one and one for another...

[nikpro]

Remember the incident with the speeding shropshire policeman only too well    

.............wasn't this officer taken to Court by the Police  

.....Therefore he has been treated the same?

Don't accuse the Police of discriminating when they have dealt with an Officer in the same way as anyone else - If the CPS or Courts decide not to prosecute then that is not a Police matter surely?

He was and he got away with it    

This was then overturned by the high court

He was then found guilty of Dangerous driving at a second trial

But the judge said he'd 'suffered enough after 2 1/2 years of court proceedings'  and gave him an absolute discharge    

Anybody else would have been up s**t creek without a paddle

He was doing 159mph at one stage and 60 in a 30

to 'Familiarise' himself with the car

Obviously as the police are so well trained they can be impervious to any sudden change in road conditions or action of a pedestrian in front of them    

I know you lads stick together, but you must surely see that this bloke could have killed somebody        

Perksy -

That is a decision of the Courts not the Police! (He was convicted of Dangerous driving rendering him almost un-insurable for the next 10 years)

The Police took him to Court (Because, yes he could have killed someone and the Police judged it wholly innapropriate); the CPS appealed a decision by the Court.

What a Judge decides in sentencing has absolutely nothing to do with the Police!

Please understand the Courts and Police are totally seperate - the Police responsibility is to report the matter to the Courts - which they most certainly did/were right to do so in this case.

Can you suggest what else you would have liked the Police to do in this case?

[Stuart]

Nanny state guys.  Started when they made me wear a helmet to ride my Lambretta 35+ years ago.  So it's been coming a long time and will only get worse until we organise the revolution.  'Cos nowt else is gonna change it.

[perksy]

hence we should all be treated the same - that is fair.

Sadly Perhaps all Judges don't beleive in your quote above then    <!--emo&

If i'd been his chief constable and having viewed the video evidence of his driving He wouldn't have been let loose on a police mountain bike never mind owt else

(He did untold damage to your cause i'm afraid in alot of council tax payers eyes)

Ahhh well, afraid life has taught me that there is one rule for one and one for another and nowt will change that view...

But we digress, back on topic    

Nikpro

Try not to keep editing your posts, i'm struggling to keep up          

[windy]

Shock horror, a noisy car is "safer" than a quiet one. They should have stopped you to congratulate you.  

When all these leccy cars appear on the road running over the kids coming home from school at 10 mph, because they can't hear them coming, they're going to be passing laws to make cars noisier again.

[nikpro]

A S.59 Notice is minor - please appreciate that - it's far less than a FP ticket or summonsed to Court.

Minor? You don't lose your car after two minor FPs, do you?  Did they say your car is a bit noisy, get it sorted within 7 days? No.  He's been hard treated.

But you don't get 6 points with a S.59 and it doesn't effect your insurance.

The car in itself may well not be noisy - the manner in which it is driven may have been the noise factor.

If your neighbout puts a big bore exhaust on his Corsa the car may be legal noise wise.

He then decides he will 'bounce it off the rev limiter in first gear every time he passes you house he probably wouldn't be breaking the speed limit.

He decides he will do this at 4am everymorning.

He does not commit a specific Offence but I'm sure you would find it b****y annoying?

(I'm not suggesting that the OP was driving like this for one minute but is an example taken to the extreme - for people who only see a car as transport their threshold levels are considerably lower than ours.)

Police work revolves around Plaintiffs and Suspects - there will always be one upset party no matter how you deal with someone.  

[Fat Albert]

Nikpro

I simply cannot believe that you are defending what is an increasing trend of reversing the basic principle of British justice, namely innocent until proven guilty. Giving an officer of the state the power to convict as well as charge is a primary building block of fascism, every authoritarian state in history has a ruling caste who had this power.

If it is true that there is no appeal or legal challenge against an S59 then what is to stop the next government extending the legislation to cover more 'events' with greater consequences, e.g. restricted individual liberty or worse!

Checks & balances are necessary to any law structure, one (or two) individuals opinion is not evidence without opportunity to cross examine. Recent social history is littered with examples of totalitarian societies who've abandoned the principle to their very great cost.

If I were you OP, and I understand there are issues, not the least financial, I'd be tempted to instruct a solicitor to issue a 'blind' Freedom of Information request for the S59 records of the officers concerned. Make sure that the solicitor's accompanying letter imparts the information to force's FoI officer that the purpose of the request is to establish a pattern of behaviour regarding S59 that may be the subject of an official IPCC complaint.

I promise you the officers concerned will receive additional S59 'training' and that revised S59 'guidance' will be on the force intranet within days

[nikpro]

Nikpro

Try not to keep editing your posts, i'm struggling to keep up          

Pot/Kettle springs to mind since every post of yours on page 4 has been edited