GALLY Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Went to the local meet last night and had a great time. But the jouney home turned sour. I was less than half a mile away form home when 2 officers appeared over the brow of a hill, waving me to pull over. They had already stopped a racer in a hot hatch and so their gun wasnt available, no record of me speed was taken. "is this your car sir"? " was the first of many questions. After a long dicussion between them selves they verbally issued me a section 59. Whats that all about? Apparently my car has the possibility of being a nuisance to other road users.......what the devil! Can anyone on here explain to me further???
John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 link "SECTION 59 was brought in by the Government to target ‘vehicles used in a manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance’ although many people within the modified community believe that the Section 59 law is pretty much an anti-cruising law. "
GALLY Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 All I was doing was driving though. Dont get me wrong its possible that I may have accidently broken the speed limit a couple of times during the journey, but I was within a minute from my home and aware of the speed limit when I was stopped. It seems to me that any vehicle has the possibility to cause offence ect. Im feeling a little hard done by. Its appears that if I get stopped in the next 12 months my Westy can be crushed.............bit harsh it seems
langy Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 After a long dicussion between them selves they verbally issued me a section 59. Whats that all about? So the record of it is where ? Don't know anything about Section 59's, but think its a bit harsh.
stephenh Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Surely the section only kicks in if the constable has reason to believe that a vehicle has been driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner, or has been used off-road in an area where it wasn't permitted? The bit about causing alarm etc etc only kicks in if and when the first bit applies. What I'm saying is that the requirements of sub-section (1) (a) AND (my emphasis) (b) apply. Sub-section (1) (b) on its own doesn't bring the section in to play. If it were otherwise, the last word of sub-section (1) (a) would be OR not AND.
GALLY Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 Im gutted TBH. I was told that a record would be kept an a data base for 12 months. It would have been much better if I was speeding and given the penalty of points and fine etc. I may as well not take the car out for 12 months now.
stephenh Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 So if you are told by a constable that they are going to issue you with a section 59 warning, ask him/her why, what is it he/she considers you have been doing wrong.
GALLY Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 59(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which - (a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and (b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public, Likely to cause alarm. Surely that is applicable to any vehicle?
Captain Colonial Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 All I was doing was driving though. Dont get me wrong its possible that I may have accidently broken the speed limit a couple of times during the journey, but I was within a minute from my home and aware of the speed limit when I was stopped.It seems to me that any vehicle has the possibility to cause offence ect. Im feeling a little hard done by. Its appears that if I get stopped in the next 12 months my Westy can be crushed.............bit harsh it seems Seems pretty harsh to me as well. If you'd been hooning it, racing, doing donuts and smoky burnouts, or revving the nuts off the thing in a residential area at 11 PM or later, than yeah, I get it. But it looks like you got caught up in a sweep instigated because of the behaviour of some local boy racers. I think it was an overreaction by the local plod. If I thought you'd get any satisfaction or resolution, I'd tell you to go and have a polite and friendly word at the cop shop, ask them to look at your car and tell you why they thought it merited a 59. *The part of our show that will raise hackles - if you love the police and don't want to be offended, look away now...* There are so many idiotic jobsworths in uniforms in the police department that it makes my teeth hurt. Yes, they do a very difficult and sometimes dangerous job, which they knew was dangerous when they signed up. Yes, there are some excellent coppers out there (somewhere). But there are plenty who are a law unto themselves. Three (of a number of) personal examples: > Green Volvo S50 gets so far up my backside on the M40S as I'm overtaking in Lane 3 that I can't see his bonnet, let alone the grill or numberplate. I finish my overtake and pull back to Lane 1, and as he's overtaking me, I point my finger to my head and spin it in the universally acknowledged "Are you nuts?" signal. Said car then whips in front of me and slams on the anchors, forcing me to slow to 50 and up pops the illuminated "Police" sign in the rear window of this unmarked cop car. I do nothing except drive on, and he then accelerates away and up to about 100 mph. (Bear in mind he wasn't on a shout, no lights or sirens.) Pulled over at the services two miles later and there's the car again, parked. I go inside and there he is, at the front of the queue in the shop, buying coffee and a cake - that's why he was in a hurry to risk his life and mine. I let him know how I felt, got his name and called his superior (like that did any good). > Behind a marked Volvo V70 in town which is in the left lane of a three-lane roundabout. Without warning from a dead stop at the roundabout, he makes a hard right-hand turn from the left-turn lane and cuts up four cars, including me. Again, no sirens, no lights, no indicators. He goes in the same direction as me, so I figure there must be a shout on. Nope - he decided to go to the McDonalds drive-thru about 200 yards up the road. Again, it was worth risking an accident and injuries for his stomach. > Neighbour's house alarm goes off on a weeknight while he's away - never ever gone off before. Call the police - sorry sir, we don't respond to alarms, you'll have to check it out yourself. Why, are you too busy? No, we just don't respond. Oh good - so if I check it out, run into a burglar and get my head bashed in, while you respond then? Oh yes sir, right away (without a trace of sarcasm or irony). As it turned out, someone was trying to break in, he saw me and I saw him, and he then ran off into the night. Called police back - if he's gone now, not much point coming out sir, here's a crime number. Two cop cars not on an emergency shout passed by as I talked on the phone to the station. So sorry if I don't have the highest opinion of the police, but it's not prejudice, they earned it. Trust is earned, not handed out with a warrant card like a Kinder egg toy. I still support them and cooperate wherever possible, but the indicator needle on my Trust-O-Meter is bouncing on the Empty peg. Don't be afraid to take the car back out, they're not going to crush it, too much paperwork they want to avoid and they'd have to drag you through court as well. Just a scare tactic.
carpetstu Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Some good info here, bottom of first page MSN forum It sound like you was unfortunate mate and you came across a copper with a large chip on his shoulder? My advice is speak to the Sargent or Chief Constable at your local police station. I wouldn't raise an official complaint (as your likely to get pulled every five minutes if you do) but just have a friendly chat and point out that you feel that due to the coppers previous issues, with other vehicles that evening, you feel that you have been victimised.
MK11 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Yet another law where the burden of proof is reversed and it is up to the accused to prove their innocence. Who says if you're not guilty you have nothing to fear? I'm seriously considering investing in an in-car recording device. It would come in handy for instances like this and when numpties can't stay on their side of a white line round roundabouts.
stephenh Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 59(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which - (a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and (b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public, Likely to cause alarm. Surely that is applicable to any vehicle? No, its not applicable to any car. Only to those which a constable in uniform believes is contravening section 3 or section 34 of the RTA.
Rab (bombero) Reid Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I understand Acts have to be precise, yet at the same time vague enough to ensure that the 'baddies' out there don't wriggle out of a well deserved booking/arrest/etc. However, the unfortunate side-effect to this is, is that the 'goodies' get caught up in the same details .. add to that, a jobsworth and you've a recipe for annoying and sometimes upsetting incidents like yours. With hindsight (and I guess if you get pulled again) is to politely ask for an explanation as to how the officer feels that your car or your driving has contravened the Act in question. ps - I see that you don't say exactly what the officer says you've done wrong .. did he/she say? Is it possible that your exhaust is to loud?
cidersurfer Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Tell them you'll see them in court. If it ever got there, which it won't because the country can't afford it, any decent brief will destroy their case against you. And if you have a burglar call the fire brigade. 8 burly blokes in a fire engine vs a spotty copper in a panda car from the police force who doesn't arrive in time anyway if ever. No competition. Sorry. Did I say fire brigade? Whoops! Brigade not allowed now is it, too military. I meant fire and rescue service. Did I say police force? Shame on me, they're not allowed to be a force anymore. I meant whatever they're called now... It's time the country stood up for itself citizens! Power to the people! Ah, that's better...
carpetstu Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Is it possible that your exhaust is to loud? Its a 7 inch Car Builder Solution can and it fairly loud but no more than 50% of other Westfields on the road. It used to spit flames too, not sure if it still does though, now John has had it properly set up? I have some exhaust packing somewhere John, I will see if I can find it when I get 5 minutes. It might be quieter with some more wadding in it?
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