I've never seen a Westfield do this ...

[JeffC]

snapped arb at Croft

[Mark Stanton]

QUOTE

Oh, and they also supply the "RAC bar"   Which isn't exactly cosmetic, and for a rather large range of drivers, (me included) isn't really tall enough, unmodified, for good protection either.

and neither is it compliant with current RAC/MSA regulations        

[stephenh]

Oh, and they also supply the "RAC bar"   Which isn't exactly cosmetic, and for a rather large range of drivers, (me included) isn't really tall enough, unmodified, for good protection either.

and neither is it compliant with current RAC/MSA regulations        

Well Mark, I wasn't pulled up on mine all season. The MSA rules about rollover protection are quite ambiguous, I think. There is quite a lot of confusion between what is required as a minimum, and what is recommended.

[Blatman]

Oh, and they also supply the "RAC bar"   Which isn't exactly cosmetic, and for a rather large range of drivers, (me included) isn't really tall enough, unmodified, for good protection either.

and neither is it compliant with current RAC/MSA regulations        

Well Mark, I wasn't pulled up on mine all season. The MSA rules about rollover protection are quite ambiguous, I think. There is quite a lot of confusion between what is required as a minimum, and what is recommended.

You weren't pulled because road going class cars are not required to have roll over protection. Sounds daft, but the regs are aimed at tin tops more than anything else. It does raise the situation where if you were to get pulled for a "bad" roll bar, taking it off completely would comply with the regs and force the scrutineer to pass the car...

[Mark Stanton]

Stephen

Just because you weren't pulled up has nothing to do with a RAC/MSA rollbar that is sold as RAC being none compliant with current regs      

as Blatters notes that's the scrutes decision on the days event in your class      for the events you were present ........... many bars have been questioned on several occassions at various events over many years.

It would be so much easier if WSC Ltd sold their bar as a braced or trackday rollbar and removed all reference to its inference that it is RAC/MSA compliant    

and I been around long enough to know that WSC Ltd never had RAC approval stickers or reference to documentation on their rollbars.

Cages made by others....... yes.    

Plays Kool and Caged are selling compliant roll bar / cages    

[atillin]

Drivers looking to see if his fly's are undone too !

I'm intrigued to know where your flies are.  Surprising the effect a dark visor on a black helmet can have.

[atillin]

Yes had one that did that due to bollixed shockers (Nitron Mk1)

You do need good droop and arbs to stop this and if you dont it generates massive understeer due to one wheel contact  area

Not good

Disagree about the understeer - never suffered in the four years I owned the car.  Perhaps BEC helps the situation (lower overall kerb and nose weight).  Managed a high 1:15's at Combe (with only 128 bhp at the flywheel).  Still not sure why I sold the car - it's still going strong with the new owner and on the same engine, shockers, etc.

[LordB]

Drivers looking to see if his fly's are undone too !

either that...or he's checking how far the slick has gone

[cng1]

(thos @ Nov. 15 2010,18:30)

QUOTE

The original picture looks to be russels at snetterton, which is a corner where the vast majority of quick cars will be lifting a wheel.

Cocking a wheel like that on a corner like Russels does no harm at all.  Think about it - if the driver is going at it hard then all the weight will have transferred nicely onto the outside wheels.  If there was more droop in the suspension yes the wheel could be brushing along the ground but what good will that do, given that there is no weight on it?  Furthermore on a wheel brushing along the ground with no weight on it by definition it cannot affect under/over steer, so it could just as well flap in the breeze for all it matters.

Now the obvious misconception is to say hmm, OK then lets get some weight on that wheel.  That however is precisely the wrong thing to do.  Adding a stiff ARB _reduces_ so you'll be going slower and will delay the transition of weight till later in the corner (may or may not be a good thing on any given corner).  Better would be to stiffen the springs up but that too will reduce the grip overall so you'll likely be slower.

[atillin]

The original picture looks to be russels at snetterton, which is a corner where the vast majority of quick cars will be lifting a wheel.

Cocking a wheel like that on a corner like Russels does no harm at all.  Think about it - if the driver is going at it hard then all the weight will have transferred nicely onto the outside wheels.  If there was more droop in the suspension yes the wheel could be brushing along the ground but what good will that do, given that there is no weight on it?  Furthermore on a wheel brushing along the ground with no weight on it by definition it cannot affect under/over steer, so it could just as well flap in the breeze for all it matters.

Now the obvious misconception is to say hmm, OK then lets get some weight on that wheel.  That however is precisely the wrong thing to do.  Adding a stiff ARB _reduces_ so you'll be going slower and will delay the transition of weight till later in the corner (may or may not be a good thing on any given corner).  Better would be to stiffen the springs up but that too will reduce the grip overall so you'll likely be slower.

Very well spotted - it is Snetterton.  Logic sounds excellent to me.  I never felt the need to run stronger springs at the front or increase the damper settings much above minimum.

[Kevin Jones]

Adding a stiff ARB _reduces_ so you'll be going slower and will delay the transition of weight till later in the corner (may or may not be a good thing on any given corner).  

Not sure I get the logic here, can you expand what it reduces that would make you go slower.

[Tigger]

Adding a stiff ARB _reduces_ so you'll be going slower and will delay the transition of weight till later in the corner (may or may not be a good thing on any given corner).  

Not sure I get the logic here, can you expand what it reduces that would make you go slower.

Your not alone Kev, I was wondering that too but was too scared to ask

More info would be good  

[SteveD]

cng1 the car in the fist picture hasnt even got a roll bar fitted so your argument is invallid anyway even if we could understand it in the first place    

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Have alook at this little lot

It gets interesting from about page 3 onwards  

[Kevin Jones]

Yeah, but the 3-wheel argument applies to uneven surface stability and when you want to raise (front) tyre temps into best operating range. Don't think any of that is relevent to this thread, but happy to be corrected.