Matt Seabrook Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 It's a pity that cars don't make what they are worth as some of the best cars on here have to be stripped to make what the components are worth. Skids car must have been one of the higher specked Westfields for sale on here. It was up for sale for ages and I am not sure if its still up for sale. The asking price must be a fraction of what the car cost to build yet still would not sell. Out of interest what is a Westfield with a 290bhp engine sorted suspension dog box, LSD and hours and hours of development worth? Quote
stewart pickles Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 It's a pity that cars don't make what they are worth as some of the best cars on here have to be stripped to make what the components are worth. Skids car must have been one of the higher specked Westfields for sale on here. It was up for sale for ages and I am not sure if its still up for sale. The asking price must be a fraction of what the car cost to build yet still would not sell. Out of interest what is a Westfield with a 290bhp engine sorted suspension dog box, LSD and hours and hours of development worth? got to be worth at least 150 quid matt Quote
V 8 Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I reckon Cleggy probably would apologise for the potential harm his innocently posted opinion could do if the two cheshire lads would apologise for being so rude to him! Quote
Matt Seabrook Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 It's a pity that cars don't make what they are worth as some of the best cars on here have to be stripped to make what the components are worth. Skids car must have been one of the higher specked Westfields for sale on here. It was up for sale for ages and I am not sure if its still up for sale. The asking price must be a fraction of what the car cost to build yet still would not sell. Out of interest what is a Westfield with a 290bhp engine sorted suspension dog box, LSD and hours and hours of development worth? got to be worth at least 150 quid matt On that score then Skids car was over priced Quote
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 We do mock Caterham owners for constantly talking about heritage, but this is what keeps their resale value relatively high. Their Brand identity/protection. As a forum how good are we owners, at protecting our brand/investment? Sometimes think that a PM can be a better than a POST in some cases. This is the point I am trying to make. Market forces dictate the price something is sold at; there are to parts to the Market; the buyer and the seller. Most people in the Club have a Westfield and when the time comes to sell it they can choose the price - unfortuneatley on here they can't! If someone Posts a car for sale they are immediately informed if the price is to high by people who haven't seen the car, don't understand what's in the car and have never spoken with the owner. Cars are only priced into price brackets because we have made it that way ourselves by ill informed posts on what's the best engine etc, etc. Bit like the diamond trade; diamonds are not rare it's just the South Africans don't sell many and keep the price high for their own economy. We have the ability to increase the re-sale value of Westfields - yet people on here like to brag about the 'bargains' they bought or how much other 'x engined' cars sell for and belittle anything else - it's because of these comments on a Public forum that the new Westfield owners form the sameopinions. Cleggy - in every single post you make on cars for sale/potential purchasers you mention how much your beloved Duratec was and how much people should pay for different engined cars - your post frequency is very high and therefore reaches a large potential audience yet I personally don't feel you are qualified to comment on what is a good engine for a Westfield as you can not differentiate between the engine types - this is the second post in 2 weeks on a car for sale where you have got the engine type completely wrong then refuse to admit the mistake (I don't have a problem with a lack of technical knowledge) Your posts are like adverts to potential costomers who are eventually 'brainwashed' into thinking that a Westfield without a Duratec I4 isn't worth having. There is another thread running about a Westfield for sale with a Zetec Engine at the moment where, not supprisingly you postagain stating that the potential purchaser should try to get the price down hinting again that it is overpriced - This is in the Newbies Section where people new to the club tend to visit first! Westfield for Sale You are entitled to an opinion like everyone else but if someone asked me how to grow potatoes I wouldn't comment on that thread! As said - P.M.'s are better where price is concerned. For Cast Iron IMO the Sigma is an outstanding engine ideally suited to a Seven so at what point did I give a valuation? dont remember seeing that anywhere my view of what determines a westfield price has very little to do with the brand - it is what sits above it and what sits below - hence why caterhams fetch more and other perhaps cheaper kits fetch less, westies sit somewhere in the middle - then the variation in price depends upon spec and build, but there still seem to be limits to what a car will sell for, and this is purely what I have expressed If you think it is your mission to start controlling other peoples opinions you have lost your marbles - if you are gently trying to lean on people to start talking prices up then fair enough - as is always the case there are ways and means of getting a point over you are right about the spec and development of the car but unfortunately the amount of time and money put into the car, very little is recouped - that's just the way it is I have never belittled anyone elses engine choice, unlike you! I have simply commented as to what other cars are selling for _ I am not the only person to have done this in the past, but it seems to be your mission to pick me out and I keep saying it over and over again - the guys asked for an opinion - if he gets 12.5k I shall be chuffed for him, he is in no rush to sell so he may well do - if other people thought the car was a bargain at 12.5k he would have had some interest if you keep this up I shall give those nuts an extra 1/4 turn Quote
lippydave Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Cleggy, Relax man, you are obviously a decent bloke..... Even if you don't know a Zetec from a boat anchor.... I really don't know why folk are getting their knickers quite so twisted up.... A car, almost any car is never worth as much as you spend on it, they are generally not appreciating assets, they are depreciating cash eaters..... The biggest problem faced by any kit car builder at the moment, is that a well built kit car will likely not fetch what it's spec or performance demands, simply because there is so much choice in more mainstream cheap performance cars at the moment...... What ever way you cut it, a kit car is generally percieved as being built by a wierdy beardy in a garage (by Joe Public).... Stop yer b***hing the lot of yers and just enjoy revelling in your wierdness and pedalling our plastic bathtubs at high speed.... Now tell us some more about yer junior homemade Beetle thang..... Quote
cidersurfer Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 It's a pity that cars don't make what they are worth as some of the best cars on here have to be stripped to make what the components are worth. Skids car must have been one of the higher specked Westfields for sale on here. It was up for sale for ages and I am not sure if its still up for sale. The asking price must be a fraction of what the car cost to build yet still would not sell. Out of interest what is a Westfield with a 290bhp engine sorted suspension dog box, LSD and hours and hours of development worth? got to be worth at least 150 quid matt Aww c'mon Stew, everyone knows that any Westy with a Vx in it is worth a minimum of £10k... And just to add my tuppence worth, what Nikpro and Bob said ^^^^^ Quote
Ginger wingnut Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 This is great i go away for a bit and this place descends into total anarchy!!! Great topic im gonna get me some popcorn and a beer and see how it goes Quote
john_margaret Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 This thread really has got out of hand. It seems like everyone is trying to throw out underhanded machoistic comments to put down other users comments down (and aren't we still entitled to our opinion right or wrong - just post your contrary opinion),this questions why you would want to be a member or post comments on this forum if people are going into personal attacks. People really shouldn't ask for an opinion. Remember Cleggy is still a potential purchaser and will only pay what he thinks it is worth. If others aren't prepared to put their hands in their pocket who's to say he's wrong. A cars is only worth what someone is willing to pay and someone is prepared to accept. The bottom line is if a car isn't selling it is either overpriced or focused towards a very limited market. A westfield is a niche vehicle. A high specked, high price westie will only be afforded by an even more limited niche buyer and becase of this will have to be priced to sell; or if desirable enough, left on the market for the niche buyer to eventally purchase (again the price still has to be justifiable). Some users seem to be living in a bubble devoid of depreciation or the idea of 'second hand vales', remember some of the value of a kit-build is also in the build itself. If we really wanted to pay for the sum of a vehicles parts minus the 'heritage' we would all be driving locosts. P.S. don't take any heed of my 'opinion' as i'm only a forum user who paid pi#s all for my westfield. Quote
Blatman Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 "A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it." Everyone who says that has *completely* misunderstood Nikpro's point. I want to buy a 996. I want to pay 10K. Can I? No. Why not? Because a car isn't *just* worth what someone is willing to pay goodness me. Nikpro, I'm with you all the way. Quote
jeff oakley Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 We have been here many times before and no doubt will again. The issue is that those who buy anything will go and will always buy what they want at the best price they can afford. Any product has an base value, the rest emotion. There is no way an expensive watch costs what it does to produce but they sell at a price the market will stand. The board room has always suffered from those with a little knowledge being seen as experts, which is a worry when they are talking anout safety issues. When it comes to values, those most eloquent are seen as experts by some and that becomes the level. Westfield values are affected by several things, supply, demand, engine type, quality , performance, competetive makes and to me the most importance is the impatient of the sellar. If you have a car on sale for a couple of weeks to some thye are already reducing the price in their head, yet if you hold out it will sell. It is more difficult when the higher spec car looks visually the same as one that is much lesser in one or two areas. Potential buyers will always read up about the pros and cons but that is based on a norm which they can easily see. Now the Duratec question, it is a bit like the "kings New Clothes", yes they are a good engine but how much better. I would not be swapping my Vauxhall for one and many of our members will not swap their engines likewise. At the moment the "experts" claim that all pricing is benchmarked against them, it might be but for all the wrong reasons. We have always devalued our Westfields as a brand by continuley arguing in public what we think they are worth, people pitch the price accordingly. Caterham owners think their cars are the business and talk them up and do likewise. I am not taking sides here as I lost the will to live reading some of this but Fraser is bang on in my opinion. Quote
Chasmon Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 "A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it."Everyone who says that has *completely* misunderstood Nikpro's point. I want to buy a 996. I want to pay 10K. Can I? No. Why not? Because a car isn't *just* worth what someone is willing to pay goodness me. Nikpro, I'm with you all the way. Balls! A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay! You can't get a 996 for 10K as others are willing to pay more. Simple. Don't get me wrong I'd like residuals to be stronger but ultimately the market seems to be such that demand is higher for cars in the £7-9k price bracket where as higher value cars are not meeting their potential resale value as the demand is not there. I agree with the comments that there seems to be a trend that people believe a car needs to have the latest engine to be any good. That's the nature of these forums, there's always someone around to persuade you that you need 200BHP to have fun. Quote
Blatman Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 "A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it." Everyone who says that has *completely* misunderstood Nikpro's point. I want to buy a 996. I want to pay 10K. Can I? No. Why not? Because a car isn't *just* worth what someone is willing to pay goodness me. Nikpro, I'm with you all the way. Balls! A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay! You can't get a 996 for 10K as others are willing to pay more. Don't get me wrong I'd like residuals to be stronger but ultimately the market seems to be such that demand is higher for cars in the £7-9k price bracket where as higher value cars are not meeting their potential resale value as the demand is not there, recession... blah blah blah. I agree with the comments that there seems to be a rend that people believe a car needs to have the latest engine to be any good. That's the nature of these forums, there's always someone around to persuade you that you need 200BHP to have fun. Keep going... Why are people willing to pay more for a Porsche than what I am? Is it because they are over valued? Is it because people are simply willing to accept a high price? No, it's because the brand, reputation and performance of the cars makes it worth it. The same *should* be true of Westfields, except there are far too many *experts* saying they aren't worth it. To help me with my 996 ambition, can we please start talking down the residuals of Porches on the Porsche forums. What do you think the Porsche owners will say? Yeah, they'll say the same things *we* should be saying about Westfields... Quote
Chasmon Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Ultimately I don't think "talking up" the brand on here will make much difference. There's an awful lot of people who won't read all the threads on here before buying a car. Alternately if everyone could put off selling their car for 6 months I'd probably sell mine and make loads on it My business studies GCSE told me that supply and demand delegates price (although it was a while ago ) The 996 is still worth more than you can afford because the bankers haven't had to take a pay cut liek the rest of us... Got to say I agree also that we should talk up the brand not down, and squabbling doesn't do that. Out of interest whats a Crimson car, registered in 2008 on a Q with a standard 2L silver top with TBs, Dunnel exhaust, RAC bar, but otherwise standard worth? Quote
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