Westfield Resale values

[nikpro]

In order not to ruin the Sellers advert I have reposted my Ramblings Here:

As a club we have destiny over the depreciation of the vehicles we own.

IMO Westfields that are very well built/high spec sell far to cheaply.

There will always be a bargain to be had because peoples personal cirrcumstances can dictate the requirement to sell but there is no need for every car to sell so cheaply.

I just think we talk the value of these cars down far to much - the basic kit would have cost £16000 for this car (1600 Sport) then add in all the optional extras/SVA/Licensing etc and look at what has been spent and the 'hit' the seller is taking.

We owe it to ourselves to price these vehicle realistically for what they are - it's a supply/demand thing; if there are very few bargains to be had then purchasers will have to pay more realistic prices.

As an example Mark B recently sold his car - this was probably the most immaculately prepared example of a westfield you could come accross, it was a very high spec and had been extensively developed - it was worth far more than a standard Duratec 2000 car but because it didn't have the latest, fashionable engine no one would have even come to see it if he had asked for that price.

I like to think that we should 'shun' fashion as enthusiasts but the ramblings of people that are maybe not technically minded enforces this 'fashion' status in new purchasers by saying 'engine x is the only one to have!' , when they don't really understand that engine y & z are every bit as good and is only a part of the vehicle as a whole.

To end this ramble I would much preffer if other posters didn't comment on Prices advertised on the cars for sale (I know the OP asked the question) and other people quoting how much they paid for theirs. Let the buyer do the research, see the car in the flesh and talk to the owner then come to their own decision on whether the price is fair. Every car is so individual.

Original thread can be found here:

Westfield for sale

[SteveD]

well said that man  :t-up

or speak up when someone is trying to deceive other members

[Owen9364]

[Mark (smokey mow)]

I have to agree, all too often I see very well spec'd cars on here and PH's sell for a small fraction of their true build cost and value.... Yet Westfield owners are very quick to devalue their own cars by suggesting that advertised vehicles are overpriced etc etc.  

As Fraser has noted in other posts, it is very much up to the buyer to decide for themselves if something is overpriced or lowerspec'd compared to others, IMO we shouldn't be talking down the value of others cars, not only because this isn't fair to the seller (especially when posting in their for sale thread) but ultimately because this impacts on the value of our own Westfield's.  That's not to say though that we shouldn't be offering helpful advice to any potential Newbies.

Ultimately a Westfield is worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it, and the market will determine that.  There will still be bargain's to be had though as personal circumstances will dictate the price we chose to advertise or sell at.  There may well be issues with the economy at the moment but this is not affecting everyone, reading other threads it appears that prosective purchasers are prepared to travel the length of the country or ship the car half way around the World, so clearly there's buyers out there for the right cars.

Whist I've never sold a Westfield or have any intention of selling my car, I would like to think that when/if the day comes to part company with it would make a fair price based on it's spec and performance and not be devalued.

Mark

Edit: to correct the worst spelling and punctuation

[i_am_ed]

How about adding "No comments on the asking price, unless asked for by the seller" to the 'cars/parts for sale' forum rules?

[cliveboy8]

At last! I thought this some time ago when I tried selling but didn't have the bottle to put it in print.

I totally agree with everythin nikpro has said.

If someone advertises a car and there is a cheaper one elsewhere, so be it.

[JeffC]

ts not just westys its all used cars     unfortunately if you spend the money on new you never get anything like you money back, in fairness no different to buying any new car, for eg a sporty  new Audi at £32k  after a year would have dropped to £23k which is a 30% depreciation  .

and the other thing Ive noticed from what i can see there are price brackets that certain engine configurations fit into price brackets irrelevant of what they cost new,  anything north of £10k people seem to expect nothing less than a 2.0 duratec, Im not sure I can recall the last time I saw anything other than a duratec cec exceed £10k, as you mentioned in the other thread there is no reason why one of the lightweight 1600s shouldnt be worth any less but as soon as you call it a zetec it fits into the zetec price box        

I actually think with the recession the more expensive cars  havnt been selling and sellers are having to reduce prices which has a tumbling cards effect on used car values  , there has been a few duratecs advertised on here at £14k and due to lack of interest reduced over time to £11-£12k  and  eventually sold , people see this and you will now notice remarks on duratecs only being worth £10- £11k     this has the falling cards effect on the lower models meaning sellers have to reduce there asking price      

the likes of the Busas and blades have come down a lot in price, there was a time when £13k was cheap busa money this year there was a couple advertised circa £10k they were poor spec and thats probs a fair value of them but buyers wont see that and the man trying to sell a speccy busa will have a fight  to get his money as buyers will think its over priced  , all of a sudden buyers think £10k is busa money .

 on the other side of the coin I think the cheaper westys have actually increased in price      

[hilux]

QUOTE

I have to agree, all too often I see very well spec'd cars on here and PH's sell for a small fraction of their true build cost and value.... Yet Westfield owners are very quick to devalue their own cars by suggesting that advertised vehicles are overpriced etc etc.    

As Fraser has noted in other posts, it is very much up to the buyer to decide for themselves if something is overpriced or lowerspec'd compared to others, IMO we shouldn't be talking down the value of others cars, not only because this isn't fair to the seller (especially when posting in their for sale thread) but ultimately because this impacts on the value of our own Westfield's.  That's not to say though that we shouldn't be offering helpful advice to any potential Newbies.

QUOTE

Ultimately a Westfield is worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it, and the market will determine that.  There will still be bargain's to be had though as personal circumstances will dictate the price we chose to advertise or sell at.  There may well be issues with the economy at the moment but this is not affecting everyone, reading other threads it appears that prosective purchasers are prepared to travel the length of the country or ship the car half way around the World, so clearly there's buyers out there for the right cars.

Its the same everywhere and on most forums. It was the same with my old Westy and then my 944 Turbo. Lots of forum contributors talked it up (others didnt) and said it was worth 30% more than I sold it for ( I got what I asked) but the market is king UNLESS your car is special and is unique but then you need to wait for a person looking for that type of car.

[KerryS]

Anything is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Difference between "value" and "price"

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

QUOTE

Anything is only worth what someone will pay for it.

True enough, but there does seem to be a lot of active "talking down" of values. The most gauling for sellers must be some of the very dismissive "throw away" comments by people, who don't, but perhaps, should, know better.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

To be honest, I think the emergence of Locosts has played a big part in  killing the second hand Westfield market as people use them as cheap comparions but fail to see the lack of finesse / quality

[Mark Stanton]

Well said .............. and its not for the first time this point has been raisedand you're right there are many westfields sold at low prices and it surely doesn't help anyone    

But a sale depends on the sellers circumstances bearing in mind that I would anticipate that 90+ % of westfields are second or third cars purchased for fun and enjoyment - when someones personal circumstances change the first thing to go is a Westfield or equivalent, which they are fully aware is going cheap, but needs must.

Can it really compare should we not also consider that some sales are driven by personal cash flow - I'm sure we'd all sell below market value if we needed to raise cash    

[RichP]

I also think it depends on your mindset whilst you own the car. For example, I paid ~£5500 for my car 3 years ago and I'd probably get the same back for it now. However I've spent loads (for me) on it - probably approaching it's original cost. To get a fair price back, I'd have to break it up and sell the parts. The only way I can justify carrying on is remembering it's a hobby. Others spend money on food / beer / bikes / whatever - my brother spends a fortune water skiing.  They don't get the money back - it's an investment in having fun. That's how I view the car - an investment in fun. If I try to apply logic to it, it'll never make sense.

So, if I ever sell it, I can't think that I'll lose a fortune - the ongoing expenditure (upgrades) are the "running  cost", for the most part anyway.

[owlscastle]

I agree with the above.

My original post has started quite a discussion. I hve updated the words now taking note of all your comments. Thanks

Fortunately I am not in a rush to sell. I want to go back to a competetion/hillclimb car again and see my fairly standard smartish Westy as something should be enjoyed by someone as it is, not chopped up by me and ruined just to make it go faster!

Ritchie

Ritchie

[Cleggy the Spyder Man]

I personally dont think there is anything wrong with commenting on the price, if someone aks the question why they have had little interest ...... how many times do we get asked to comment on a cars price?

cars are selling at the moment but not at the prices of previous years - there are also more cars on the market - In October last year I was looking for my first westy and remeber on Piston heads there was only 20-30 adverts there are now over 40 featured -

at the end of the day if you want your car to sell at a good price, the car that you have put blood, sweat and tears into for the money that you would like, the first thing you do is place the best advert possible - if we are talking about the car in the advert with the 1.6 zetec - if this is an all singing all dancing engine ideally suited to a westy, then let your clients know - the content of the advert was TBH poor with very little detail, which was the main gist of my first post

I would still say that the car is over priced compared to what we have seen other cars sell for over the past year or so ( yup it would P**s me off selling a car that has cost me 20k to build for 12.5k with only a few hundred miles on it) - I have not re-visited the post to check but I dont remember seeing TB's on it, so a couple of K could be spent there if the buyer wanted to upgrade - and to repeat again there was very little spec listed on the advert other than some nice bits on the suspension and some snazzy wheels

from what I have seen over the last twelve months is that cars tend to get bracketed into price groups and dont vary too much - so x-flows 4-6.5k - pintos 5-8k - std zetecs - 7-10 etc etc - I wont even put a price on duratecs for a fear of a battering

the problem here is defining what you feel the car is worth and what it will actually sell for - some people at the minute need to sell and do it quickly, which Is a P**s poor situation to be in - If you have time to sell you have much more chance of finding the right buyer that falls for your pride and joy

I agree with one of the comments below in particular - these cars are toys, and no matter what you spend on them, unfortunately you will not see much of that money back - beacause of the nature of these toys they have a ceiling price, at the end of the day if you had 10k in your pocket a westy sounds a sexy sounding toy for a motoring enthusiast, if you have 20k in your pocket perhaps more exotic toys loom into view - in fact I would suggest if you spent 12k building a westy and sold within a year you may get a reasonable chunk of that money back - if you spent 22k I bet after a year you would be lucky to get 55% back at the moment - so you have to ask yourself if this is a hobby you are prepared to shed money on before you build - if you cannot afford or stomach to loose that sort of money then go buy a bargain, there are plenty about

all said and done I was pretty dissapointed with some of the comments made in the post in question, and not just the ones aimed at me - this forum did not used to be like it has become over the last handful of months

the way some boardroom members are spoken to in here is becoming very tiresome and TBH unpleasant and abusive - I find it quite embarrasing and have on more than one occasion PM'd the person at the receiving end and explained we are not all that unpleasant - I am a big boy and can look after myself, but I do slowly see people drifting away from the forums and not returning for various reasons

vegetables rights for peas man !

edited to say - just seen the original advert has been updated with extra spec which now looks a bit more like it