Croft Circuit

[windy]

I'm guessing life is going to get very miserable for these individuals very shortly judging by the comments from the local community (hotels / B&B's / pubs) who's trade will be affected by the decision.

The final outcome of this won't be decided by the courts, which is probably a good thing.

[Tonto1]

If Croft was forced to be closed (which I absolutely and utterly hope it doesn't) then I kind of hope that the site right next ot these enormously selfish f3ckw!ts house is used to create the largest gypo/traveller site in the uk.  

Though I would also settle for immigrant detention centre, animal testing facility (complete with protestors), chemical treatment plant (comnplete with toxic efluent & hideous oddurs), sewage treatment works, high security prison (full of axe welding physcos), nuclear dumping ground or job centre for all the people & local businesses who lost their job/business as a result of these peoples 'justice' with the bus stop/car park right outside said f3ckw!ts front door.

Now that would be justice!!!  

ps.  Long live Croft and ever other race track and motorsports venue in this country that have helped give Brtain one of the (if not THE) finest motorsports histories in the world!!

[jeff oakley]

problem is it is real!! more to the point is there anything we can do to help resolve it? i would be up to help - because this could go much further afield - other circuits will be next.. using this as a landmark case

You are spot on. Every one who lives near any noisey activity can use this as an example of case law and will without doubt lead to many cases being filed at other venues.

If you look at the google map of the place you couldn't get a more remote track with less housing. I had to smile when I saw the rail track near to the house and circuit, wonder if that is acceptable to them because that must run 24 hours a day.

The more you read about this case the more it stinks, they used one of the countries top QC to take this case to court racking up £750,000 in fees against crofts £100,000, there is something seriously f****d up in this country.

[cast iron]

I think local businesses should be able to sue messers Watson and Wilson for loss of earnings? apparently there is £3million generated by the circuit.

[nikpro]

It sounds more like Croft Circuit got it wrong!

Without knowing the full facts of the case it isn't fair for us to comment - as petrol heads we will always be biased towards the circuit but we have to face facts - twice the Courts have given a verdict in favour of the plaintiffs hence we can only assume that the Circuit is at Fault with something.

It is test casses in Law that improve the situation for everyone - other Circuits will have to take note and do something about noise pollution; this isn't a bad thing as itmakes our hobby/business more acceptable to everyone.

Not everybody has a love of cars and we should accept the fact that we can not be selfish by impossing the noise that goes with it on everyone.

Just because something has been in existence for a long time doesn't give then the God given right to break rules and regulations where people's quality of life is involved.

I do understand this action appears to have been bought out of Domestic circumstances but the fact of the matter is Croft Circuit have not complied with the Law.

[Andrew]

QUOTE

Not everybody has a love of cars and we should accept the fact that we can not be selfish by impossing the noise that goes with it on everyone.

I aggree, but it's not everyone, its three people.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Taken from another forum:-

Extract 1:

Derek and Julia Watson and their daughter, Jill Wilson, all live within about 300 metres of the circuit, in Dalton-on-Tees, and say their enjoyment of their homes has for years been gravely affected by the "loud, intrusive and repetitive noise".

Extract 2:

The objection by the Watsons and Mrs Wilson was not to car and motorbike racing events, which take place on the track on about 45-50 days-a-year, but to "vehicle testing days" and "track days", when members of the public drive cars around the track all day long at high speed.

Croft Promo-Sport Ltd has a leasehold interest in the circuit, which is managed by Croft Classic and Historic Motor Sports Ltd (CCHM). CCHM was set up in 1994 by Mr Jimmy Wilson - who was married to Jill Wilson between 1987 and 1994 - along with Trevor Chaytor-Norris and his wife Katherine, who is the owner of the Croft Motor Circuit.

So it is the ex-wife & her parents who are taking the action - funny that!

[nikpro]

Taken from another forum:-

Extract 1:

Derek and Julia Watson and their daughter, Jill Wilson, all live within about 300 metres of the circuit, in Dalton-on-Tees, and say their enjoyment of their homes has for years been gravely affected by the "loud, intrusive and repetitive noise".

Extract 2:

The objection by the Watsons and Mrs Wilson was not to car and motorbike racing events, which take place on the track on about 45-50 days-a-year, but to "vehicle testing days" and "track days", when members of the public drive cars around the track all day long at high speed.

Croft Promo-Sport Ltd has a leasehold interest in the circuit, which is managed by Croft Classic and Historic Motor Sports Ltd (CCHM). CCHM was set up in 1994 by Mr Jimmy Wilson - who was married to Jill Wilson between 1987 and 1994 - along with Trevor Chaytor-Norris and his wife Katherine, who is the owner of the Croft Motor Circuit.

So it is the ex-wife & her parents who are taking the action - funny that!

I did say in the Post that it was Domestic circumstances that bought about the action.

Croft must have done something wrong with the trackdays/testing days etc. to allow this to happen. (A Court does not make a judgement like this because someone is an ex partner)

It is very easy to pass judgement when it is not ourselves being directly effected but there is a huge difference between race meeting noise and trackdays taking place daily with constant noise.

It sounds like the Circuit have been Greedy and tried to raise as much revenue as possible with scant regard for noise pollution and have now put the Circuit itself at risk of closure.

[juansolo]

We shall skip over the fact that the family in question had, in the past, applied for planning permission for a hotel on their land that is 300 meters away from a race circuit... Also that the family moved into the houses when a member of the family was running Croft circuit and was responsible for the increase in activity.

Hipocracy, spite & greed. That's all this is.

We're simply being made to pay for a family dispute. It's not just Croft either, local facilities will certainly take a hit from the reduction of activity at the circuit. There's certainly a lot of them not very happy at the decision on the Northern Echo pages.

There's one motor racing circuit in the North East and there are millions of houses. The family in question are not short of a few bob given about a million quid in property and they've incurred £700k legal costs so far (now going Croft's way) all in order to gain £150k 'damages'. Common sense would say the family moves somewhere quieter and the thousands of people who use, enjoy and benefit from the circuit continue to do so. Sadly, this country no longer believes in common sense and the law allows this sort of bulls*** to happen all the time.

Given all this, I think we're right to be a little p****d off about the whole thing. There's not a damn thing we can do about it so at least allow us to vent our frustration at the stupidity of it all.

[cast iron]

Nikpro

I take it you have never been to Croft and even as a track day atendee you probably wouldnt be aware of the permanent noise meter linked to Richmondshire council, also the council hotline for any local to ring if they sense it is too noisy. This is put in place to ensure the noise standards are met. I went for a trackday a week before a sprint and I was not allowed to run for being too noisy, the next week I was OK for the sprint. they definitely adhere to the noise limits

The house in question is literally on the circuit, its the circuit owners former farm and forms part of the property. Someone today at work claims there friend has just bought it off Mrs Wilson for £950K.

News from Tracy at the circuit today is that the circuit will be closing

[Asterix]

News from Tracy at the circuit today is that the circuit will be closing

Another nail in the coffin.

Pity the workers.

Though a balance needs making between users and residents, this outcome stinks, not just for Croft but as a precedent for other circuits. Where shall we pick next, Oulton? Ty Croes? Donington?

[Guest]

Croft is an example of the changing situation we have to manage.  It is of course unreasonable to move next to a circuit, train line or any other location of noisy activity and then expect that activity to modify its behaviour to increase your quality of life over what it was before.  

However it is also inescapable that track and test days are one of the booming industries (as the law has driven petrolheads off the road) and the use of circuits across the country has increased for this purpose.

Of course I want Croft to succeed, but at the same time we, as track users, and the circuits owners need to figure a way of reducing the impact of our hobby/business.  If we leave it to the ciourts to deceide, then we are all going to lose except the lawyers who  pocket large fees!

Be all right when we are racing electric cars

[Barry Ashcroft]

Interesting post I read on pistonheads

QUOTE

Posted 21 January 2009 at 21:32:30 UK time

Mothy, North Yorkshire '65 W&P Sebring GT Midget

ok, Croft is my local circuit, which I use, and I am a solicitor, so I figured I should read the full court judgement posted by Jordan ... and when you read it all, its not quite as it is has been hyped up to be. I actually agree with most of what the judge says. Bear with me and read on ....

The case deals with noise nuisance and the "noise creep" over a long period of time. When the claimants bought their houses the circuit only had planning permission for 20 days use for racing a year. It currently has planning permission for around 140 days racing and track days a year. That is a heck of an increase. I used to live near the Interlagos F1 circuit in Brazil as a kid, and I can tell you that it is very obtrusive living next to a circuit when in use. Sometimes you can't hear yourself think.

Just because you can get planning permission to do something that causes a nuisance to your neighbours or the public (like making a loud noise), that doesn't mean that you have a "get out of jail free card" and can't be sued by your neighbours who are affected. Planning permission just means "go ahead if you want to, you've dealt with the planning laws, but you do so at your own risk". If I got planning permission to build and operate an asbestos factory, just because I had planning permission, that would't mean that affected members of the public couldn't sue me if they breathed in clouds of asbestos dust produced by my factory. Ditto with neighbours affected by excessive noise.

The main issue was not the existence of the circuit, it is the substantial *increase* in activity and noise.

The GOOD NEWS is that the claimants were trying to get an injunction to close Croft down to just 20 competitive race events a year. And in normal circumstances, they would (and legally should) have been successful. But because of a delay of several years in bringing action (it seems the dispute pre-dated the nuptials, then was put on hold during marriage, then re-emerged), and reading between the lines, the issue of the various family interelationships and squabbling, and specifically because of the lack of alternative local track facilities and public amenity, the judge REFUSED TO GRANT AN INJUNCTION.

This is a MAJOR result. Croft can still be used for track days, not just race days! That benefits all of us Yorkshire / NE spridget owners.

However, because of the substantial increase in days of noise a year from the time the claimants bought their property to date, their houses are not such nice places to live in, and accordingly have been blighted. This means that their value has been affected. And so the judge has awarded damages to cover the diminution in value of the affected properties. In other words, the owners of Croft will have to shell out a lump sum to cover this, but can carry on trading (as opposed to having shell out a lump sum, and be all but shut down).

So Croft have actually won half of the battle, probably the most important half.

I would imagine that they will now not only appeal against the "property blight" decision itself, but given the current state of the local property market (which I know well, living in it) also against the size of the damages.

And I would be very surprised if Croft's lawyers/accountants haven't already advised on the posibility of "doing a Phoenix" if that company can't afford to pay the damages for property blight (going bust and selling the circuit to another company with the same shareholders).

So in conclusion, this is actually a much better decision than it could have been, and is probably pretty unique to its own facts as it relates to an ongoing dispute going back to the 80s. Circuits all over the country ARE NOT going to be closing because of this.

Thanks for posting the judgement link, Jordan.

This is where all the fuss is about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79267312@N00/sets/721...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79267312@N00/sets/721...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79267312@N00/sets/721...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79267312@N00/sets/721...

[Mid life crisis]

Reading through the newspaper report, it seems to involve two ltd companies and a separate owner of the circuit.

Croft Promo-Sport Ltd has a leasehold interest in the circuit, which is managed by Croft Classic and Historic Motor Sports Ltd (CCHM). CCHM was set up in 1994 by Mr Jimmy Wilson - who was married to Jill Wilson between 1987 and 1994 - along with Trevor Chaytor-Norris and his wife Katherine, who is the owner of the Croft Motor Circuit.

If the legal costs are to be payed by one of the limited companies which ultimately leaves them insolvent, resulting in liquidation or something similar. Is it conceivable that the owner of the circuit would then be able to lease there asset to a further third party who may wish to run the circuit.

Just a thought!

I hope that whoever receives the final legal bill is unable to meet the cost by a wide margin, and these people never get their compensation or legal fees.

[DanB]

QUOTE

The GOOD NEWS is that the claimants were trying to get an injunction to close Croft down to just 20 competitive race events a year. And in normal circumstances, they would (and legally should) have been successful. But because of a delay of several years in bringing action (it seems the dispute pre-dated the nuptials, then was put on hold during marriage, then re-emerged), and reading between the lines, the issue of the various family interelationships and squabbling, and specifically because of the lack of alternative local track facilities and public amenity, the judge REFUSED TO GRANT AN INJUNCTION.

Except the Court of Appeal overturned that part of the decision and did order an injunction...