New driving licence

[Vinny's Westie]

Spoken to the helpline and the answer is

If passed car test after 1/1/97 then if trailer MAM is more than 750KG then you have to add the trailer MAM and car unladen weight together.  If this is under 3500kg then you are okay if not then you cannot legally use.

Examples

1.  Car unladen 1100kg will allow a gross trailer weight upto 2400kg.

2.  Car unladen 1500kg allows a gross of 2000kg.

Remember this is the plated weight of the trailer as found on the trailer, my trailer has a plated weight of 2600 which means a Category B can only tow with a 900kg car or less, notice no mention of any load.

If trailer is 750kg or less then you can tow with a vehicle upto 3500kg (i.e transit) and this is legal.

If test was passed before 1/1/97 then the trailer weight is not taken into account at any time so the train weight of the towing vehicle is taken into account and that controls how much you can tow.

If the trailer does not have a plate then you use the multiplier above to get the figures.  For my trailer this would be as follows

Unladen weight of trailer 560kg times multiplier of 3 = 1680kg, car unladen weight of say 1300kg makes a total of 2980kg allowing a payload of 540kg, so a Westfield is possible.  You also need to take into account the traim weight of the towing vehicle if that is less than 3500kg then that overrides the above and that is where your problems start.

Hope it helps.

[pistonbroke]

What about  White Van MAM  

[kitemark]

I’m in the same boat and spoke to a mate of the same age about the extra test that he has taken.

He had to perform 3 hill starts with an un-laden trailer, and one reversing manoeuvre. all with a trailer weighing 500kg ish, so at no point was there anything in his test to check that he can cope with a heavy trailer.

I am looking to do the test, but for now as I drive a landy I can tow the car just fine.

it’s just a check to see you are capable, but a total pain as it does not test your ability with a heavy load which is then qualifies you to tow with no experience.  

[BigDaveUK]

Right, my head hurts now! so much info.

Vinny could you just confirm i have got this right before i go out and buy a trailer!

So i have a 07 Volvo S40 2.0D Sport

Volvo states:

Min. Kerb Weight   1453 kg

Max Total Weight  1940 kg

And am looking at a BJT Clubman Tiltbed

BJT State:

Gross Capacity:2000 Kg

Load Capacity:1500 Kg

So i take the unladen weight of the car, 1453kg and the mam of the trailer, 2000kg and if its under 3500kg(which it is, 3453) that is all legal and above board?

But to complicate matters, to give myself more of a margin, i could take the plate off, trailer only weighs 500kg so would give it a new MAM of 1500kg taking total down to 2853kg.

Have i got that right or understood it completely wrong!? Thanks for all the help by the way!

[dhutch]

As far as i know from reading it the weight of the car for the 3.5ton is laiden wieght.

- So 1940+2000=3950 which is over 3500 the limit and no legal

- But 1940+1500=3440 which is ok, if you remove or remake the plate.

- And the weight of the seven will (should) be well under 1000 so thats fine.

- Also then 1500 is less than 1940 so the trailer is ok for the car that way. Assuming its breaked.

Daniel

[Vinny's Westie]

Trailer OVER 750kg MAM then the whole load, (Car trailer and load) maximum of 3500kg

Sorry error in my last post, Car unladen weight must be MORE than the gross weight of trailer.

Forgot to think of this statement, see first text ....(Van MAM 2260, Van unladen weight 1300kg, larger trailer MAM of 1240kg is a total mass of 3500kg.  This is just acceptable as the gross weight is on the limit at 3500kg.  The MAM of the trailer is just less that the van's unladen weight.)

You would have to pass a test in both scenarios, with or without plate as the trailer MAM is higher than the unladen weight of car, even though it is less than 3500kg.

DHutch this is wrong (As far as i know from reading it the weight of the car for the 3.5ton is laiden wieght.

- So 1940+2000=3950 which is over 3500 the limit and no legal).  You are using gross car weight of 1940 not unladen car weight.  but that aside the trailer is still heavier than the car so it is not allowed for Category B after 1/1/97.

Apologies for error in last post, tad complicated to remember the pitfalls

[dhutch]

Yeah, i agree with that, bar the part where you say im wrong, becuase rereading it twice as far as i can see im agreeing with you? no?

Daniel

[Vinny's Westie]

Yeah, i agree with that, bar the part where you say im wrong, becuase rereading it twice as far as i can see im agreeing with you? no?

You misunderstand the max total weight of car (1940) instead of the unladen weight (1453).  The trailer cannot be heavier than 1453 total MAM (trailer and load) otherwise it cannot be towed on Category B.  That is where the problems come in you have to do the comparison against car UNLADEN and trailer TOTAL MAM.

hope it helps.

[BigDaveUK]

That sucks!

Looks like i`ll be doing the test then

what is the penalty if you get pulled and are over the weight limit?

[Mark Stanton]

Jeeeeeez being old and passing your test a long time ago does have advantages          

[Blatman]

Several times "taking the plate off" has been mentioned... I wouldn't.

The cops aren't that stupid. If they suspect you, tug you and look, they'll see the plate missing, 'cos I doubt you thought of it first... They'll want to know why. And whichever way you paint it, you'd be b******d. They may well suspect that you've removed the plate deliberately so as to avoid the law (who would have guessed! ), so that's a deliberate criminal act.

You didn't know... ignorance is a poor defence... and tough to claim being as this is out in the open

You bought it without a plate. Got a receipt sir? How do you know the trailer isn''t stolen? Etc... Can open, worms everywhere...

Or, someone nicked the plate. Possible, but not very plausible and cops will have expected you to make a bit of an effort make sure it's actually within spec for it's use. They'll probably want to hang on to it until you can prove it's not being used outside of it's spec or outside the law.

And even if you get away with all that with the cops, if you have a crash, your insurers will be asking all the same questions. Even if you don't crash, I suspect just getting caught leaves you open to a charge and possible conviction of driving without a valid licence. You're insurers will love that...

So lets see, you're prepared to take the risk to avoid a couple of hundred quid going out to take the test, so that you can trailer a 10K car around the country potentially uninsured and certainly without the appropriate papers in place. Seems a bit short sighted to me...

[scruffythefirst]

Buying a trailer with the right number on the plate solves all that though, and no need to take the test.

[dhutch]

You misunderstand the max total weight of car (1940) instead of the unladen weight (1453).  The trailer cannot be heavier than 1453 total MAM (trailer and load) otherwise it cannot be towed on Category B.

Ah sorry, yes, your right on that last line.

Thanks.

[BigDaveUK]

Several times "taking the plate off" has been mentioned... I wouldn't.

The cops aren't that stupid. If they suspect you, tug you and look, they'll see the plate missing, 'cos I doubt you thought of it first... They'll want to know why. And whichever way you paint it, you'd be b******d. They may well suspect that you've removed the plate deliberately so as to avoid the law (who would have guessed! ), so that's a deliberate criminal act.

You didn't know... ignorance is a poor defence... and tough to claim being as this is out in the open

You bought it without a plate. Got a receipt sir? How do you know the trailer isn''t stolen? Etc... Can open, worms everywhere...

Or, someone nicked the plate. Possible, but not very plausible and cops will have expected you to make a bit of an effort make sure it's actually within spec for it's use. They'll probably want to hang on to it until you can prove it's not being used outside of it's spec or outside the law.

And even if you get away with all that with the cops, if you have a crash, your insurers will be asking all the same questions. Even if you don't crash, I suspect just getting caught leaves you open to a charge and possible conviction of driving without a valid licence. You're insurers will love that...

So lets see, you're prepared to take the risk to avoid a couple of hundred quid going out to take the test, so that you can trailer a 10K car around the country potentially uninsured and certainly without the appropriate papers in place. Seems a bit short sighted to me...

Whoah! easy tiger! i was merely asking.

I happen to enjoy the privellege of driving and dont plan on ricking my lisence any time soon. was simply a question of curiosity!    

[Blatman]

Wasn't aimed at you so much... more the growing number of people who are seemingly willing to ignore the law for no reason other than it suits them. If only all laws were like that...