Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 still has far too much grip at the rear widening the rears helps but not enuf Widening the rear will only give you more rear end grip. To get rid of your karts understeer, you need to widen the front and narrow the rears in. I'm sure I've told you this before Ian are you defo saying on your kart to reduce rear grip you would move the wheels in then he is jeff but it wouldn't ......... but by the same token moving them in wont give you more grip in the wet either . and then the chassis bars have an effect ,and hang on a minute ..... new axle ? did you set the rear ride height the same .... that will screw it up? Quote
conibear Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 still has far too much grip at the rear widening the rears helps but not enuf Widening the rear will only give you more rear end grip. To get rid of your karts understeer, you need to widen the front and narrow the rears in. I'm sure I've told you this before Ian are you defo saying on your kart to reduce rear grip you would move the wheels in then Jeff, If I knew statically the kart was in fine fettle, yes I would but at the same time I would move the fronts wider Harv, is almost certainly better at this than me, but I am trying to offer 'generalised' help. My kart and sons kart on a hot dry day would have maximum rear width, pressures lower than normal and I would trim the front width to suit. This is general comment based on having the ride height and caster set right. TBH, I have little knowldege of pro-karts, they possibily don't corner as quick as 2 strokes, so may tend to understeer more than a Rotax Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 your right .... whats the point , fit a new one , but then if its only for fun then i guess a straightened one is going be ok , i wouldn't run one ...... but then i have run a bent axle for the last meeting ... but then when i way bent , its only slightly tweaked ..... proper bent ones are a bit funky to try ad drive with but then i also use fresh rubber every meeting ? and they are trying to work out why times keep going all over the shop with rubber thats not fresh to strt with and then quite alot of laps old ..... it only ever gets slower ,and past 100 laps its only fit for filling with concrete and using as an awning weight. Howay then Harv, which way from a medium axle to reduce rear grip, soft or hard reduce rear grip ........ tyre preassure up rear track out remove seat stays rear bar out ride height down front hubs in or just use really shagged tyres? oh punctures ... yeah they do it as well , so also tyre preasures down .... lots . oh and axel ? soft less grip , hard more grip . Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 and i can qualify each statement with a situation they'll do exactly the opposite .... THAT was what i meant hen i said circuit racing is easier ... sometimes .... when it 1 make and only adjustment is tyre preassures .... Quote
JeffC Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 still has far too much grip at the rear widening the rears helps but not enuf Widening the rear will only give you more rear end grip. To get rid of your karts understeer, you need to widen the front and narrow the rears in. I'm sure I've told you this before Ian are you defo saying on your kart to reduce rear grip you would move the wheels in then he is jeff but it wouldn't ......... but by the same token moving them in wont give you more grip in the wet either . and then the chassis bars have an effect ,and hang on a minute ..... new axle ? did you set the rear ride height the same .... that will screw it up? dunno from the beggining to clarify... used kart for 2 month and it went well, was very happy with the handling, was as quick as anything else ie pro/wf... had a bat with Marks kart, drove it for another 2 days and was as good as ever.. I noticed the slight bend and ordered a medium 50mm axle (ididnt know what was in so went with middle ground to be safe ) pretty sure I set rear heights to same position from there on in kart changed, would bog on long fast corners which I originally thought was fuel starvation as revs/speed fall off mid corner, by sending the rear hubs out over I can improve the bogging so its almost gone but it seems to understeer turning in to a corner and on a long corner , mid corner when accelerating the front end pushes away and struggles to hold a line .. If I move the front wheels out I get back to bogging on tight bends again. as said its not horrendous its around 1/2 second off the pace of Petes kart, but put a lighter driver in and it finds the pace .. strangley in the wet the kart is very good and I have no complaints Quote
boblog Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I have never heard a proper karter reshaping bent hollow axles and reusing. In fact a proper kart possibly changes his chassis twice a season, as the constant flexing reduces performance Two of my mates are really quick lads, one has beaten the British Champion and the Scottish Champion in the same MSA race in the Lakes back end of last, look up his name, Ben Dickson, he won the Biland series at Warden Law. One of the boys he runs with changed his Tony Kart (rotax) chasis 7 times last season. Ben Dickson has also "used" straightened axles. Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Harvey Knott, are you fooking sure you missed the bit where i said 1 make championship , with only change being tyre pressures ... well maybe there would be the odd other trick ... just maybe ... its the same thing all motorsport is dangerous all motorsport is expensive and all motorsport is b****y frustrating at times . Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 jeff welcom to karting ..... chassis go off , take and new chassis and a top team will sell it on after 6 meetings .... because its gone off the pace and its changed its flex . you have put another axle in which isn't the same as the one that came out ,thats for sure ,even if its another medium , who's medium is it ,and as they flex the medium becomes softer with age .... you just have to find that happy ground Quote
conibear Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I have never heard a proper karter reshaping bent hollow axles and reusing. In fact a proper kart possibly changes his chassis twice a season, as the constant flexing reduces performance Two of my mates are really quick lads, one has beaten the British Champion and the Scottish Champion in the same MSA race in the Lakes back end of last, look up his name, Ben Dickson, he won the Biland series at Warden Law. One of the boys he runs with changed his Tony Kart (rotax) chasis 7 times last season. Ben Dickson has also "used" straightened axles. Did he use a straightened axle when he beat the British and Scottish Champion? Not saying he can't use straightened axles Bob, but if Ben is that good why is he worried about the cost of new axles Quote
JeffC Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 I have never heard a proper karter reshaping bent hollow axles and reusing. In fact a proper kart possibly changes his chassis twice a season, as the constant flexing reduces performance Two of my mates are really quick lads, one has beaten the British Champion and the Scottish Champion in the same MSA race in the Lakes back end of last, look up his name, Ben Dickson, he won the Biland series at Warden Law. One of the boys he runs with changed his Tony Kart (rotax) chasis 7 times last season. Ben Dickson has also "used" straightened axles. and I drove his kart today and it felt like it was bent as a bannana how the fook he drives that so well amazes me and he is b****y quick in it it was the most twitchy thing ive ever driven, I honestly never felt in control for the half a dozen laps I was in it , with me behind the wheel it was an accident waiting to happen Quote
Pilot Pete Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Ian are you defo saying on your kart to reduce rear grip you would move the wheels in then he is jeff but it wouldn't ......... but by the same token moving them in wont give you more grip in the wet either . and then the chassis bars have an effect ,and hang on a minute ..... new axle ? did you set the rear ride height the same .... that will screw it up? dunno from the beggining to clarify... used kart for 2 month and it went well, was very happy with the handling, was as quick as anything else ie pro/wf... had a bat with Marks kart, drove it for another 2 days and was as good as ever.. I noticed the slight bend and ordered a medium 50mm axle (ididnt know what was in so went with middle ground to be safe ) pretty sure I set rear heights to same position from there on in kart changed, would bog on long fast corners which I originally thought was fuel starvation as revs/speed fall off mid corner, by sending the rear hubs out over I can improve the bogging so its almost gone but it seems to understeer turning in to a corner and on a long corner , mid corner when accelerating the front end pushes away and struggles to hold a line .. If I move the front wheels out I get back to bogging on tight bends again. as said its not horrendous its around 1/2 second off the pace of Petes kart, but put a lighter driver in and it finds the pace .. strangley in the wet the kart is very good and I have no complaints Captain quite liked your kart! So chaps, here was my situation, what basic action would you have taken. The kart understeered like a pig so I moved the front hubs out, now the front end gripped well but the back end was way to loose. Should I have moved my rear hubs in? Also, point of interest, Even though it was freezing I actually dropped me pressures today from 20psi to 15psi and the kart went better? Sound right? Quote
JeffC Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 I have never heard a proper karter reshaping bent hollow axles and reusing. In fact a proper kart possibly changes his chassis twice a season, as the constant flexing reduces performance Two of my mates are really quick lads, one has beaten the British Champion and the Scottish Champion in the same MSA race in the Lakes back end of last, look up his name, Ben Dickson, he won the Biland series at Warden Law. One of the boys he runs with changed his Tony Kart (rotax) chasis 7 times last season. Ben Dickson has also "used" straightened axles. Did he use a straightened axle when he beat the British and Scottish Champion? Not saying he can't use straightened axles Bob, but if Ben is that good why is he worried about the cost of new axles It prob will have been . from what he was telling me he hasnt changed / maintained anything on that kart Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 i ran higher preasures today ..... to get heat .... this should reduce grip but didn't , but usually more grip with lower pressures ,.... to be fair it differs compound to compone , how you and the chassis are working them .... massive understeer as cold i would have run (i did run) 2mm toe out and neutral camber but alot of caster . the length of rear hubs helps grip too btw Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 i ran higher preasures today ..... to get heat .... this should reduce grip but didn't , but usually more grip with lower pressures ,.... to be fair it differs compound to compone , how you and the chassis are working them .... massive understeer as cold i would have run (i did run) 2mm toe out and neutral camber but alot of caster . the length of rear hubs helps grip too btw all i can say is its different down south ..... and in the british champs . Quote
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