Mark Stanton Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Terry please re-read my post - it does not start in 2008 it starts in 2009 Plus there are certain matters that are perhaps best not posted on a public forum for ways and means to address the need for cat converter without being over reactionary we have a year to put these in place What's needed is for as many people as possible to contact and lobby the MSA via phone - e-mail or letter as was originally requested last year with a posting by richard Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Agreed Mark. I will write again to MSA for clarification as far as I am concerned personally but would it not be possible to have a "petition" approach to carry weight etc due to numbers of people involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 A petition may be of benefit in some manner It probably won't make drastic change .................. but may hopefully assist all involved Any volunteers to undertake this petition task, please step forward Sorry Terry, good idea but it is a huge task and needs the time and work required to make it feasible with support from as many championships as possible. The ruling could possibly create mayhem amongst 2009 Motorsport neither drivers, championship organisers or MSA scrutineers are currently being given guidance or assistance on this matter Without wanting to sound cynical perhaps if more folks had taken notice of Richard Greens posting early last year then it may have been different. If anyone wishes to copy my original questions posed then please do so and send them to the MSA I believe that they are direct and cover all key factors - may be we'll get different answers - in fact any written answer would be helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.anson Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The ruling could possibly create mayhem amongst 2009 Motorsport neither drivers, championship organisers or MSA scrutineers are currently being given guidance or assistance on this matter The biggest message to the MSA that this ruling is perhaps in need of er... "review" will be when the grids/entries are 75% down in 2009 as hardly anyone will have an eligable car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 The ruling could possibly create mayhem amongst 2009 Motorsport neither drivers, championship organisers or MSA scrutineers are currently being given guidance or assistance on this matter The biggest message to the MSA that this ruling is perhaps in need of er... "review" will be when the grids/entries are 75% down in 2009 as hardly anyone will have an eligable car. But we have all been given quite a considerable time to employ a cat, which let's face it, ain't gunner cost alot in respect of what we have all already spent Can't see how taking notice of the Richard Green post would influence the MSA, the bigger picture for the MSA surely is bigger than what we all on here have to say IMO, this new regulation will be mandatory Jan 2009 as it's an environmental issue which is more political than a safety one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 So how do you fit a CAT and map engine so we dont reduce power on highly tuned engines Antbody working on this like Dunnell, SBD, etc for Duratec engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 So how do you fit a CAT and map engine so we dont reduce power on highly tuned engines Antbody working on this like Dunnell, SBD, etc for Duratec engines Agreed the cost could be considerable. My car for a start would be out. There is no way just fitting a lambda sensor and cat and a quick remap would sort it out. Trust me we have a hard enough time getting cars through emissions test for MOT as it is and they have not been mucked about with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedricTheBrave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I thought CAT's only work below 2.5/3k revs not much point it being there after that. sort of negates its use in motorsport doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Unfortunatley this appears very much a political move so the MSA can say that all production based cars run CAT's. Interestingly it doesn't say it has to work Yet ! As it has been introduced by the MSA, we need to lobby them to drop it as "of dubious benifit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICHARD+PHILIP Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Pre 99 chassis for sale anyone interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 O.k here's to make it easy for everyone Please copy and paste the questions below and e-mail, post or even hand it to John Symes of the MSA at Autosport Show. If we have enough people asking the questions - perhaps we may get an answer and a clearer direction - but sorry folks you need to do something Please DO NOT put your own interpretation to these questions - I already have a verbal MSA answer which has been posted in the Speed Series info section ____ Name ....................... Address ..................... Clarification of Rule 12.16.7 "Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars manufactured after 31 December 1999." Q. Championships first registered prior to 31 December 2007 do not require the above ruling to be a mandatory requirement until 1 January 2009 ? Q.For new championships established 2008, this ruling will be mandatory for 2008. ? Q. Where kit cars are specifically concerned: e.g. Westfield, Caterham, Locost, Raw Striker, Genesis, MK, Donkevoort etc Does the term "manufactured" refer to the date of manufacture of the chassis and not that of the overall completion by the independent self builder or it's SVA, date of registration and/or MOT test where road-going. ? Q. Will it be mandatory for kit cars manufactured post 31 December 1999 to have a catalytic converter fitted regardless of age of engine, which may be pre 1999 and not designed for use with a catalytic converter. ? Q. Where kit cars are manufactured prior to 31 December 1999 but use an engine of a later date the use of a catalytic converter is not mandatory. ? Q. Where a catalytic converter is mandatory, this is to be applied to all road-going kit cars whether they be Q plated or year plated. ? (Please note that Q plated vehicles are subject to a visible smoke test only when undergoing an MOT) ? Q. Use of a catalytic converter is mandatory, subject to age of manufacture, when a motorbike engine fitment is used for the car build. ? Q. Is the rule 12.16.7 applicable to both road-going and modified non-road-going classes of kit car ? Q. The use of catalytic converters is to be checked and "policed" by the scrutineers of the meeting, which may from time to time be supplemented with the use of specialist certificated gas analysing equipment with trained operatives ? Q. The ruling 12.16.7 is applicable to all forms of sprinting, hill climbing and circuit racing. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Mark, Some of your questions are not worded correctly. Some look like statements with a question mark at the end and miss the key words "Are", "Will", When", What" etc For example - Q2, Q9 and Q10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 well simply change em then goodness me - tell you what shall I write them all out I knew only a Grade B "O" level English would loose me down one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 QUOTE Please DO NOT put your own interpretation to these questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Green Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, stone me, this is a surprise isn't it? Late one summer a magazine appears on the doorstep. Contained within are draft rules for consultation. A well known harbinger of doom foresees a possible problem and suggests that it might be a spiffing idea to write to the omnipotent architects that inhabit the mythical place known as Colnbrook.... Few are as visionary (or simply can't be arsed....after all it's someone else's problem isn't it?) A few (five to be precise) hardy souls bother to write to the rule makers, (for blessed are the rulemakers), offering constructive criticism and pointing out the potential chaos that may ensue from it. But five voices in the wilderness don't carry much weight. The esteemed inhabitants of Colnbrook reply with words to the effect "five letters hardly amounted to a mass outcry did it?...." and duly goes ahead and ratifies the proposed rule. Sometime later in a parallel universe: The kit car motorsport fraternity finally realises the implications of the new rule, and throws up its arms in horror. But it's too late and all that can be heard in the distance is the manic chuckle of a magician in a shed who recycles old baked bin tins, paints them black and prints the words 'catatonic converter' on the side..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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