Advice on fitting oil cooler

[Andrzej]

On 09/11/2023 at 12:00, CosKev said:

 

120 is fine👍

 

What oil do you use?

 

If it's a thin one that the manufacturer of the engine recommends go up to a thicker grade that will offer better protection hot.

 

For reference Millers say their performance oils are fine seeing peaks of 150 and constantly running at 130!

 

From my humble track experience I will agree. 

 

In previous track car before instalation of oil temp gauge I was driving ca 15min  sessions on exact track, almost from start to end hard (exept 1 and last lap ) . it was dont know mayb 15 trackdays on the same oil (LM 10w60 , not zetec but also 2.0 NA Alfa Romeo) . Then next seasson with gauge on the same track also 15min sessions, the same style - noticed that in half session had 120-130deg C, on end 150. 

And - after this first seasson I send oil to Blackstone lab and there was no harm to viscosity, no especialy metals in it etc. Oil was good. 

After second seaason engine was examined inside on ocasion and bearings etc was fine. 

 

In Westfield track  (air - oil cooler there) I use Gulf 5w50 (engine builder recomendation for viscosity) , 120C in summer is nothing strange, normal in warm/hot days,  changed after season and exept fuel in oil (extra viscosity is good to have  ) also no metal etc. 

 

On road westfied with zetec 2.0  (gulf 5w30)  no oil cooling system , oil goes max to 100C even on hot summer days , but must say I never took it for trackday and engine is not tuned in any way with std OEM ecu exhaust etc. 

 

If 120C is max what one can see no sense to add additional complication, weak points (connections) potentialy with oil leak (this really can harm engine if not car if sprayed under rear wheel) . Maaaybe some extra viscosity like 10w40 instead 5w50 etc so if with temperature vicosity goes down, it will be there still.  On the other hand, some say that highier viscosity oil has more resistance in flow, hence not so good in cooling. 

 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Some great advice on this thread, so rather than re-hash it all, will just add a couple of general comments!

 

If you don't have an oil temperature gauge, (or a logger recording temps, even if not displayed in real time), you really have no idea if you have a true issue or not, in 90% of cases.

 

Unless an out and out competition or equivalent track car, that only sees careful warm up/cool down and hard track use, if you do fit an oil/air type cooler, you need a thermostat too*.

 

If you're more of a balanced year round road user, you probably, for most common Westfield engines DON'T need a cooler. Even on the engines dogma tells you, you will. 

 

If you like to mix year round driving with very hard road driving on, oh, lets say Alpine style roads  , or perhaps a generous number of track days as well, without actually living at the track, then seriously consider an oil/water style cooler. Some of the common Westfield engines, Honda F20, Duratec etc actually come with the OEM manufacturers version already, in fact. Though subject to what your oil temp gauge is telling you, this might not be enough. In which case a bigger, Mocal or similar style cooler, (which may also mean a  slightly bigger or more efficient rad, too), is the thing to go for.

 

The Oil/water type cooler, have the advantage, that they won't over cool the oil, in fact, they'll actually look after it better, helping it get up to a minimum operating temperature faster. Great for winter/colder days, or even just getting the engines T's and P's up to working levels faster, and more mechanically sympathetically.

 

The oil/air type cooler, has some benefits for pure track cars, efficiency wise, and oil pressure wise, (potentially), BUT without a thermostat, will over cool the oil when not driving hard,  which is also bad for the engine/oil. A thermostat will help, here, true, just be aware, that the stats for oil systems are usually different to those like you have in the coolant system. To avoid pressure drop catastrophes, they will frequently still flow more oil then you might think, through them, even in the "closed" position. So with this type cooler, physically covering it in colder weather is often best.

[Flying Carrot Steve]

On 09/11/2023 at 07:15, CosKev said:

 

As above you won't need one for any type of road driving 👍

 

It's only trackdays where you are at WOT for so long the oil temps become a issue.

 

If you do fit a air to oil cooler you will probably need to blank it off for road driving as the oil won't get hot enough to evaporate any moisture that's in the crank case.

 

Might be worth looking into a Mocal Laminova,expensive to buy but work well👍

Hmmmm, very interesting idea. I have a Turbo Zetec, fairly powerful, nice big radiator plus an oil cooler. I have yet to track it but on the road it does take a while to get hot and never seems to get above maybe 85° That is water temp though as I have no oil temp gauge, something I really should add on a car that is track prepped maybe? There is a ducting pipe from the front of the car to the oil cooler (which is behind the radiator but in front of the battery), it hadn't occurred to me to move the pipe for road use or even blank off the oil cooler as a test. I will be trying that next time I'm out for a blat. Thanks for the idea!

[Flying Carrot Steve]

On 09/11/2023 at 11:46, DanDB said:

I’m running Valvoline SynPower 10w40 currently on the recommendation of Raceline.

 

I’ll look at Millers products for my next oil change.

 

Cheers

For my Turbo Zetec Opie oils recommended a fully synthetic 5W-40 as better at higher temps. I now use Millers 5w40 Racing Oil CFS NT+ Competition Fully Synthetic 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

On my supercharged S2000, the only (engine) oil cooling comes from the bog standard Honda oil/water heat exchanger. Normal even brisk driving in summer water temps when moving are between the stat's opening point (read from ecu, so slightly lower than the normal water gauge pick up position) ~78°C and around 88°'s, in this sort of driving, the oil temp follows, a few degrees less, but once up to temp, never much less than the 78°C figure, (As it then gets warmed by the heat exchanger.)

 

- Obviously, these are all for when moving, not for in traffic or stopped.

 

The absolutely hardest time it has, is going up steep, very tight mountain passes* in generally warm to hot weather. Here the water temp, from memory has briefly maxed at around 108°'s on a short section of twisty bits, with oil slightly above, say around 110°'s. Both falling immediately on lifting off the throttle and under braking etc. (we're talking back below 100°'s in under a minute for both oil and water.) However, in road use terms, it's probably as ultimate a test as you will get in mainland Europe, let alone the UK. 

 

(*For reference, while I'm not going to give details on the open forum, this fantastic, 25km+ mountain road, is a private toll road, wholly contained in an access controlled huge mountain park, and is not public highway. It's a popular road with bikers, too, consideration for other road and park users needs to be given, etc, etc.)