rdavies Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Just wondering if anybody has fitted a oil cooler to there Westfield, with a remote oil filter, temp gauge adaptor and oil thermostat. Have checked out the Burton catalogue for parts, but would be helpfull if anyone has any advice or pic's that would help me decide on the best way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazpowerslide Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Not nessasary to fit an oil cooler on a Zetec, they are designed to run hot. Use good quality oil and thrash!!!!! Chaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Errr.... No engine is designed to run hot and all high quality Synethic oil's have a limit, in my opinion 110 oC is as high as you should run sustained. However, I'd doubt any roadgoing Westfield needs an oil cooler, irrespective of power and engine. But if the car heavily used for track then it will, especially if the engine produces high power. Oil cooler should be sized on engine power output and it should always be mounted (airside) in front of the water radiator. Best refer to manufacturer advise on fitting but it will be easy to do and fairly obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 it should always be mounted (airside) in front of the water radiator. Best refer to manufacturer advise on fitting but it will be easy to do and fairly obvious This is not correct! If the oil cooler is mounted infront of the water rad you are loosing the efficiency of the rad - it is best to split them and put the oil cooler in its own airflow. This is often not easy and is why you quite often see them infront of the rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 This is not correct! If the oil cooler is mounted infront of the water rad you are loosing the efficiency of the rad - it is best to split them and put the oil cooler in its own airflow. This is often not easy and is why you quite often see them infront of the rad. Sorry, I disagree the oil cooler should be in front of the water radiator and touching each other, as it will allow the oil to heat up with the water and cool down together. This practice is advised by many engine developers. If your water radiator looses output because of this then the water radiator is inefficient in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 QUOTE If your water radiator looses output because of this then the water radiator is inefficient in the first place. I wouldn't say innefficient, I'd say undersized. If you have plenty of cooling capacity (easy in a non turbo'd 7) then fit an oil - water cooler as this will help the oil get up to temp quicker and stay at the temp of the water while dumping extra heat into the coolant for the large rad to dissapate. No need for an air-oil cooler unless your water rad can't cope and then your defeating the point of extra cooling by putting it in the airflow of the main rad. If you stick a air oil cooler in front of the rad you will prevent the oil warming up as fast as it should, unless it has a stat in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazpowerslide Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 The Zetec (along with pretty much all of the modern generation of pertol engines) is designed to run hotter than engines like the older XE, Crossflow, Pinto, CVH ect. Manafactures run them hotter to help with emissions, economy and power output, this is made possible with better design, materials and oils. It is incorrect to say no engine is designed to run hot you only need to look at the temperature that the thermostats open on various engines (in their standard application) to get an idea of the difference in running temps for older and newer engines. The Zetec, Sigma and Duratc are specified with a 92 degree 'stat (in some applications a 96 degree 'stat is available) whereas the Pinto, CVH and Crossflow are normally specified at 82 degrees (though 88 and 92 degree stats have been made available for these older engines developed in latter years) Obviously a motor fitted with a 92 degree stat is going to run upwards of 10 degrees hotter the one fitted with an 82 degree stat hence I said that the Zetec is designed to run hot, which it is. I'd agree that with a standard Westy rad setup (Cortina/Polo) even with a motor making over 200BHP there should be enough capacity in the cooling system not to require an oil cooler if you have a Zetec/Duratec/Sigma or similar modern generation engine. If I was running a high power Pinto/Crossflow/CVH or XE I'd be looking to fit an thermostatically controlled oil cooler as these engines are probhably more likley to have high oil temp issues than the newer generation motors. Chaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedricTheBrave Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I understand where Conibear is coming from tbh and I also agree that modern engines are designed to run hotter (only 10-15 degrees tho) but if you are thrashing your zetec around a circuit and you don't have an oil cooler or a decent sump like the raceline one that has reasonable cooling fins. or in fact you are running a cut and shut sump with reduced capacity then your oil temps can go sky high. if you do this you run the risk of expensive damage. usually it will damage the mains/big ends but then the reduced oil pressure will effect the top end and the hydraulic tappets will start to fail. its all down to how much you wish to protect your investment in the engine, if you spend lots of dosh on the engine then I would suggest you protect it the best you can IMO but that doesn't help the origonal question of how to install a cooler, sorry I have no pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Chaz, how hot is hot? 101oC and above or 99oC and below. I do agree that modern engines can operate at higher temperatures, thats obvious, future design in engines will continue to improve this. I know what imply, but to say that a 'Zetec does not need an oil cooler it's designed to run hot', maybe, may I say it, bad advice. How do you know what he is going to do with his Zetec. This topic has been covered many times before and blow me I'm always envolved. My Duractec 2L has never suffered from high H20 temperatures but does with oil when driven hard, the two do not go hand in hand depsite what other people think. The only way I can deal with it, is with an oil cooler, 26 row to add. I am not dry sumped which if designed correctly will aid to the cooling. I know that if I was dry sumped I could reduce my rows from 26 to 13 again. RDavies, the oil gauge once installed will tell you if you need an oil cooler. A laminova heat exchanger is designed to keep oil temp up more than cool it down, but is better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdavies Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Thanks everybody for your input, I think there are good points for and against the fitting of a oil cooling system. I still feel I need to fit some sort of cooling, as when the weather permits I like to drive the car hard which does show up the weakness of a highly modified family car engine which would normaly run between 2000 to 4500 rpm on average. Even with a raceline sump and regular oil changes when using a smaller spec oil filter, there is a limit to how much the oil can do. Even using synthetic oil the viscosity of the oil will strart to degrade once the oil temp hits the 110 degrees upwards mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 This is not correct! If the oil cooler is mounted infront of the water rad you are loosing the efficiency of the rad - it is best to split them and put the oil cooler in its own airflow. This is often not easy and is why you quite often see them infront of the rad. Sorry, I disagree the oil cooler should be in front of the water radiator and touching each other, as it will allow the oil to heat up with the water and cool down together. This practice is advised by many engine developers. If your water radiator looses output because of this then the water radiator is inefficient in the first place. If this is the case why do mid engined cars run them in their own sidepods? I wasn't reffering to just westfields but it is best practice to find a place where the cooler has it's own airflow and the water radiator it's own as well. Placing the oil cooler infront of the rad is a compromise - but often unavoidable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbiotic_Caterpillar Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 How about one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 If this is the case why do mid engined cars run them in their own sidepods? I wasn't reffering to just westfields but it is best practice to find a place where the cooler has it's own airflow and the water radiator it's own as well. Placing the oil cooler infront of the rad is a compromise - but often unavoidable! Nikpro, you are of course correct about the oil and water heat exchangers should be in their own air stream, but as you state it's a compromise and if that compromise means the oil cooler has to go somewhere it would benefit being right in front almost touching the water rad. I only refer to a Westfield as that what rdavies refers to, but mid engined cars are limited on space as is a westfield. As a mid engined car has limited side pod space, that probably results in their cooling medium design being @ 100% and no more. With regards to the comments on wet sumps such as: (Raceline, Dunnell, SBD etc.) there designed to hold a significant quantity of oil. As an example, my Duratec Raceline wet sump holds 5 litres, which is a major disadvantage when trying to cool the oil. The less oil attached to the heat source or in contact with the crank etc.. is an advantage, I.E. dry sump would result in lower oil temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Stare Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 How about one of these? Do these work, i always thought they were for show rather than purpose? Someone will, im sure, correct me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 The Honda Vtec engines are fitted with a water cooled oil cooler that is sandwiched between the block and the oil filter - I don't know if anyone does an aftermarket sandwich plate like that but it would be a good idea. Thare are also water/oil coolers available from Mocal but the fitment isn't quite as neat as the Honda solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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