Mid life crisis Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Mark it has never been the case that competitors in A & B have competed against drivers in C & D. That was the whole idea they WERE in different classes. As far as the circuit lenth is concerned, it is not the same regardless of class, all clases with the exception of A & B recieve 17points for a class win. Let me express this in a different way - if you believe this situation as you decribe is fair, how would you feel if within the speed series the fastest car on the day was set as a benchmark ( say Tommo) and you recieved points based on how much slower you were! No 17 or 16 pointers unless you were the quickest car. Would you be happy with that, of course not. That is now the situation in A & B. I beleve this change in the rules is ill conceived and will do nothing to encourage novices into the sport, nor in fact retain the ones it has. I really enjoyed last year with the close fought and competitive spirit and banter in A. Sadly this is just now a memory for the likes of me. More to the point this action all but eliminates any enthusiatic and priceless new members - the future lifeblood of the club- wishing to participate. And if that is not bad enough!!!! To become an expert i.e. a C class competitor where you can score 17 points, you have to win two events against class C experts!!! Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenandmean Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 So if you are in A and come 3rd against 2 class C cars with another class A driver in 4th you will get the most novice points to count to end of season Novice award, what it does is prevent a novice amongst novices winning overall. However if you are a very quick novice and beat class C for example then you can justifiably win 17 points and have a shot at overall honours, seems quite fair to me. Sorry to disagree Mark, but i think it's a crap idea!!, would you have been of the same opinion 12 months ago, I think not. None of us turn out to come last and indeed I sometimes look at the entry list when it arrives and see messers Loudon, Bamber, Nunn and think why am i bothering, but a novice looking at an entry list like that will probably be throughly disillusioned. At least the chance of a class placing gives you something to aim for, being fastest novice in a combined class does not have the same appeal. That is assuming we have any novices to compete, I notice only one newcomer at Croft this year compared to I think seven in 2005. Sorry I missed this little pearl in the regs must read them more throughly in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Navin Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Hi Mark will probably join you guys in "C" next year. Unlikely cos in order to get 2 x 17 points you'll have to win Class C twice. They've amalgamated A & C and B & D so class AC has 32 entrants this year. Hi Martin when did that happen Does that mean there is no longer the A & C novice classes . Nothing to do with me I was not at the meeting when the decision was made. As the Class A Rep I argued before the meeting that the there be no change to Classes, my survey of Class A drivers (and some Class C drivers) showed that was what they wanted. You're right of course how many points you score in Class A will depend on whether Messer’s Louden, Nunn, Leybourne etc are entered and there will be no 1 point differential between 1st and 2nd in A. If you want to win the "Novice Championship" enter one of the classes that's not so well supported (E & F?). We can chat at Croft and I'll try to I'll explain it how it’s intended to work. nice to see the mentor system working as well now as it did when it started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cast iron Posted April 7, 2007 Author Share Posted April 7, 2007 You dont know how embarassed i would have felt to look at faster people in similar machines had i won overall. Certain people know. Its got nothiong to do with Flymo that is a car of a different class. A&C B&D are the same Put yourself in class C/D shoes and wonder how someone you always beat wins the speed series I do agree having re read the regs that it must be near impossible to become an expert now without waiting 5 years. surely it would be better to need 2 class A wins to do so And yes I agree you could be fastest in A at one event and end up with less points than someone coming 3rd in A at another event. That isnt right either. The class rep needs to sort it out quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott beeland Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 As a previous competitor looking in at what's happening I can't believe the class structure/series core has been modified so as to prevent a newbie/novice/virgin season driver winning the championship outright! Is this what is intended? If so, then it is just plain ridiculous!! (And YES I know my view will rattle a few cages; including those of people I know and respect;.....) Anyone (except invitation class) should be able to win REGARDLESS of how time served they are to the series; or how much money and/or development they have put (or paid to have put!) into their car. What about raw talent and a bit of luck??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I think the ammalgamation is a good idea,it help to ensure that both the combined classes should have the oppertunity to score 17 points. I am sure there has been many times when Ash has broken a circuit record only to find he is unable to score max points cos of low numbers in D. Scott ,a novice can still win the series overall but only if they beat the others in class (a/c, b/d). Steve in class C most of the cars are no different to the cars running in class a last year.My x/flow car is a very similar spec to yours Steve. I agree that the rule should be changed to make 2 class A/B wins for expert status and also the time difference sorted out as Mark L states Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I had a class win last year and thought ‘Great, now I’ll be in with the experts. Ok, maybe I won’t win anything from now on but at least I’ll be invited to the high table’. When the rules changed to needing two class wins I was disappointed but could understand and agreed with the reasoning. The simple truth is that last year I was not good enough to score the two class wins that would have seen me through. I set about this year with the goal of achieving at least two class wins and possibly amassing enough points for a championship class win. I agree with the structure to prevent a novice scooping the overall honours unless they are exceptional. What I didn’t realise until now is that I have to beat all the class D runners twice to become an expert. That’s the second time I’ve had the rug pulled from under my feet. It seems odd that we now have a situation where someone could have performed very poorly in A or B for five years and then become an expert, whereas someone else could win class A or B four years running – even beating all but one of the experts – and not be elevated to expert status. I now need to reassess my goals and what I need to do to achieve them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Whats being overlooked in this discussion is the question of how to improve the car and driver and how to pick the events that suit that car and driver. Re-channel some of the 'enthusasism' into developing the car / driver package so the wins will become easier and set your goal on the quick drivers rather than on the points system. The mentors are there to do a lot more than get into a points scoring debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Solve all your problems by going into E,F,G or H etc No novices When I was in Class B I dont think I could have ever beaten the D guys to become an expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I now need to reassess my goals and what I need to do to achieve them. Hi Howard I feel the same, yesterday I had my first class "A" win at Croft and far from being elated I just felt anger at the way all the novice drivers in A and B have been treated. The result was meaningless as all other Class Winners picked up 17, I will be lucky to get 13 or 14. This Saturday is Three Sisters and although I will of course do my best to leave with a class win, quite frankly I just don't care. This rule changes I believe will have the effect of detering new drivers from entering A and B, and those who have competed in the past doing less or any events. I am personaly looking at what other championships have to offer, as clearley the ss no longer values novice drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Way Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 To be honest we are lucky to have a novice class. And I agree that a novice shouldn't be able to win the championship outright but this is not the way to do it. As the way it stands it will all be down to the length of track you compete at if you want to win A you will need to pick the shorter tracks where you won't lose too many points as lets be honest thats whats going to happen. The way to do it would be still have the novice as a seperate class but reduce the maximum points to 16 leaving the points structure the same from then down thus negating the problems as mentioned above and still ensuring a novice does not win the outright championship. Bit of a no brainer really or is that too easy. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V 8 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 There are in fact novice drivers in all the classes. In E,F,G & H they have always had to compete against the whole class. A & B are now realigned with the whole SS, but have retained a class "title" and result structure not enjoyed in the other classes. Julie Black is a novice, as is Richard Carroll, Andy McDonald, Jeff Cooper (Just promoted by beating experts and an MSA win 1st time out), Peter Cox, Slippy, Funbob, Stew & Em, Matt Turner, Andy Gom, Andy Hawkins, John Fisher, Martin Keene, Neil Willis......the list goes on. Howard, all credit to you, realign your goal, not give up. Don't forget the "expert" status given in the SS with a 17 point win was promotion only to a SS expert. In the MSA's eyes you are still a novice until you win a MSA class. FWIW, I became an expert with MSA class wins, I never had a 17 pointer until last year, yesterday was only my second!! All down to lack of numbers. Edited to add:- Even though it makes little difference to me, in fact probably works in my favour, I support the %age difference idea to equalise long and short tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 There are in fact novice drivers in all the classes. In E,F,G & H they have always had to compete against the whole class. A & B are now realigned with the whole SS, but have retained a class "title" and result structure not enjoyed in the other classes. Julie Black is a novice, as is Richard Carroll, Andy McDonald, Jeff Cooper (Just promoted by beating experts and an MSA win 1st time out), Peter Cox, Slippy, Funbob, Stew & Em, Matt Turner, Andy Gom, Andy Hawkins, John Fisher, Martin Keene, Neil Willis......the list goes on. Howard, all credit to you, realign your goal, not give up. Don't forget the "expert" status given in the SS with a 17 point win was promotion only to a SS expert. In the MSA's eyes you are still a novice until you win a MSA class. FWIW, I became an expert with MSA class wins, I never had a 17 pointer until last year, yesterday was only my second!! All down to lack of numbers. Edited to add:- Even though it makes little difference to me, in fact probably works in my favour, I support the %age difference idea to equalise long and short tracks. Point well made........ Have to say i agree with you on all points (oups!) Why should WA & WB get prefferential treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 There are in fact novice drivers in all the classes. In E,F,G & H they have always had to compete against the whole class. A & B are now realigned with the whole SS, but have retained a class "title" and result structure not enjoyed in the other classes. Julie Black is a novice, as is Richard Carroll, Andy McDonald, Jeff Cooper (Just promoted by beating experts and an MSA win 1st time out), Peter Cox, Slippy, Funbob, Stew & Em, Matt Turner, Andy Gom, Andy Hawkins, John Fisher, Martin Keene, Neil Willis......the list goes on. Howard, all credit to you, realign your goal, not give up. Don't forget the "expert" status given in the SS with a 17 point win was promotion only to a SS expert. In the MSA's eyes you are still a novice until you win a MSA class. FWIW, I became an expert with MSA class wins, I never had a 17 pointer until last year, yesterday was only my second!! All down to lack of numbers. Edited to add:- Even though it makes little difference to me, in fact probably works in my favour, I support the %age difference idea to equalise long and short tracks. Point well made........ Have to say i agree with you on all points (oups!) Why should WA & WB get prefferential treatment They don't they are seperate classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Which other championships value novice drivers more ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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