Stupid fixation with BHP

[hilux]

Power is useless without torque

Its the torque figures to look out for and how and where its produced.

On a dyno sheet a sharp torque slope might seem impressive but its a flat consistent one as high as possible thats important or you end up screaming the knackers off your expensively tuned engine and then have no `power` off cam

Gobs of torque all through the range make a less powerful car just as quick as a high revving ricer engine as its more useable  

[jeff oakley]

I'm in the business of making MX-5s go indecently fast (who said the MX-5 SDV isn't going to be a fire-breather?)

Twas I, the point I was making was that for many it would be the ideal starter car, reliable good ride and uses so much of the donor car that it makes economical sense. However if you wanted to go faster perhaps it is not the first choice that springs to mind. Having read some of your website yes thay can be made to indecently fast but that wasn't my point.

People need to be helped to make an informed choice, in the Bristol area we have the BHP at any cost (Chris B) we have the just built 147 bhp(robc) and then we have V8 (Chris V) then we have loads of lesser powered cars who all have loads of fun as not everyone wants to drive beyond what they are happy to. If people are wanting to do mainly track, then yes power and a well set up car is a good start, but if it is day trips to the seaside etc then a nice crossflow is perfect. I ask more questions when people come to our area for advice, when I know what they want we can then steer appropriatly

[Guest]

Jeff i think you make a very good point , and i think it was made earlier , its the use of the car thats best to identify first , in fact on the road a high power car becomes more of a liability than a pleasure to drive.

First identify the usage ,then identify the car you want .

[robthehungrymonkey]

Is it not partly due to the fact the engine is the most difficult/expensive component to change/upgrade, so it makes sense to advise people on getting that right?

All the other components (brakes, suspension etc) are just as important, but are relatively cheaper and easier to add or upgrade.

I understand all the other points, but if you're buying a used westy and you're thinking of having it long term the engine is the most important thing to get right IMO. Not that the most power is "right" but right for whoever the buyer may be.

I know these cars are all about the corners, but straight line speed is always a thrill.

(overly drawn out, but i'm tired! )

[Guest]

another valid point rob , and its easier to work from a good base , i started out with a 135bhp crossflow ,and the money spent to go to a basic zetec no matter what anyone says isn't overly cheap , and from then on in its still not cheap to get big power.

As you say suspention brakes etc are relatively easy to upgrade and fairly low cost.

gearbox type is another key factor depending on use , not as costly as an engine change but not cheap either .

[steve_m]

Might be worth running a poll to see why people bought their cars ?

I wonder what the ratio is between the "wind in the hair/pub on sunday" brigade -v- "I want the most power/handling/speed/acceleration my wallet will allow me" would be racer ?

Is there any other reason for owning a 7 ?

[Tubs]

Power is useless without torque

Its the torque figures to look out for and how and where its produced.

On a dyno sheet a sharp torque slope might seem impressive but its a flat consistent one as high as possible thats important or you end up screaming the knackers off your expensively tuned engine and then have no `power` off cam

Gobs of torque all through the range make a less powerful car just as quick as a high revving ricer engine as its more useable  

So, you'll be fitting a deisel to your car then?  

Also, being a fan of the Honda VTEC engines, I don't agree with you I'm afraid. Also I don't think that the Busas have that much Torque, but they seem to do well enough.

Tubs

[Matt Seabrook]

Might be worth running a poll to see why people bought their cars ?

I wonder what the ratio is between the "wind in the hair/pub on sunday" brigade -v- "I want the most power/handling/speed/acceleration my wallet will allow me" would be racer ?

Is there any other reason for owning a 7 ?

I can see a flaw in your plan Steve I have two Westfields one for pub runs the other to scare the s**t out of me  

[stu999]

Power is useless without torque

Its the torque figures to look out for and how and where its produced.

On a dyno sheet a sharp torque slope might seem impressive but its a flat consistent one as high as possible thats important or you end up screaming the knackers off your expensively tuned engine and then have no `power` off cam

Gobs of torque all through the range make a less powerful car just as quick as a high revving ricer engine as its more useable  

So, you'll be fitting a deisel to your car then?  

Also, being a fan of the Honda VTEC engines, I don't agree with you I'm afraid. Also I don't think that the Busas have that much Torque, but they seem to do well enough.

Tubs

Absolutely. It is 'larger area under the graph', that makes a more drivable car.

And 'power with a s**t load of revs' that makes a racer

[hilux]

QUOTE

So, you'll be fitting a deisel to your car then?    

Also, being a fan of the Honda VTEC engines, I don't agree with you I'm afraid. Also I don't think that the Busas have that much Torque, but they seem to do well enough.  

   Not quite a diesel  

No but you should look at the Golf and Beemer diesels to see that they are not the most powerful of cars out there but their impressive figures are the result of torque.

Stu999 is correct, a revvy (narrow power band) racer is less `driveable` or certainly more tiring to drive on the road

I know two people (one a friend, one an acquaintance) that sold their S2000`s primarily because the novelty of having to rev to rev them all the time (above 5000rpm?) for useable power wore off.

I am not making a personal statement simply that unless you want an out and out racing car and  dont need narrow power bands and peaky torque you will find thata more useable (and quicker) car for the road will be one with good power and lots of torque throughout the rev range.

Drive a V8 or get taken out in one and you`ll see what I mean  

[Drakuul]

But the V8 will always sound better  

[scruffythefirst]

Your all missing the point, forced induction is the only sensible thing to do.  Torque, power and driveabilty is just a supercharger or turbo away

[Matt Seabrook]

Popcorn anybody?

[Tubs]

Popcorn anybody?

How the bl**dy h*ll does that make anything faster. Next you'll be selling me chips from e-bay.

Tubs

[James]

Power is nothing without control!!! theres little point in having more power than the car can get down on the road.

I just had my car set up by Mathew and Ivan at Pro Comp and the diffrence is incredible, I always knew that my car didnt handle as well as it could do but the changes have transformed the car allowing me to take bends a good and safe 15mph quicker than I used too.

My advise to a newbie is this by the car of your choice regradless of power but the first upgrade should be to get the suspension proffesionaly set up well worth it!!