Speed Series Competitors

[Mid life crisis]

I agree that novices shouldn't be allowed to win the championship too

and seriously that's the one thing where very sadly comments like that have all lost the original ethos of the SS and does little to continue attraction for novices to the sport  

How would a novice looking at entering next year view such a comment........... it would look quite unwelcoming and somewhat elitist

When commenced in 1998 the championship, Tom was quite to the point and maintained that it was the ideal opportunity for a novice to win and be encouraged to get a rung onto the ladder of competition.

So how does making the decision to run a particular type of control tyre fit in with this ethos of attracting novices with their perfectly legal roadgoing cars into the sport then?

Would a novice look at a control tyre as this as the perfect way of entering or providing the ideal opportunity to get a rung onto the ladder of compeition next year knowing that he has to change his tyres to do so?

Does forcing people to use a control tyre really encourage drivers to take part and then onwards to develop their skills?

If we're going to bring Tom into it, was he involved in the decision to go with a deal with Toyo to use a control tyre?  I genuinely don't know the answer to that question - maybe he was, but it seems a bit odd to drag him into the equation when the Toyo situation seems to me to go entirely against this ethos.

I am well aware that this could well be a moot point in the future given the current feelings about running a control tyre, but given the position at November last year where it was going to be a regulation point, I don't see how you can use this argument now.  Either you're for novices, in which case you allow them to use their cars in the roadgoing condition in which they arrive (subject to safety scrutineering measures) or you impose restrictions.  You can't try and justify it both ways.

I paid £xxxx.oo   for my crossflow tyres cost me about £200 quid

     

[V 8]

Non taken

I take it you appreciate the difference between a SS class win and an MSA class win.

I think promotion by virtue of a SS class win alone is unfair as you become an expert by beating only other novices. A MSA class win "on the day" is typically more dificult to achieve especially at novice level.

This is the way I would advocate promotion, and is the way it is done in all other championships as you become a true MSA expert by definition

[Mid life crisis]

Allo darling  

Terribly p********...job interview tomorrow...me and my boss going for one job    I could be in either a very good or a very bad mood at this point tomorrow      

Best of luck tomorrow give it your all.    And get an early night.

     

[woodman]

Fordy's idea of expert status being based on experience is a good one.

2 years or 10 events sounds about right too.

I cannot see why this would put off social spinters as by definition they are probably not really bothered about trying to win a class.

Just because you are promoted to expert you do not have to upgrade if you dont want to

[Mid life crisis]

Non taken

I take it you appreciate the difference between a SS class win and an MSA class win.

I think promotion by virtue of a SS class win alone is unfair as you become an expert by beating only other novices. A MSA class win "on the day" is typically more dificult to achieve especially at novice level.

This is the way I would advocate promotion, and is the way it is done in all other championships as you become a true MSA expert by definition

Yes this is a modified post!!!!

No I don't understand the differance between the ss class win and the MSA  class win.  Also at each event I have been to there are always a number of people requesting officials to sign their licences. I have a National Stage A is it or any benefit to get mine signed. Lots of years since I did the forests.

       

[V 8]

OK Steve,

Currently, in order to attain expert status, you have to acheive either of the following:

A 17 point win in any SS round, meaning a SS class win with at least 2 other competitors. or....

A class win at the event on the day, irrespective of whether there are any other SS competitors entered.

Typically, it is harder to get a class win on the day, than it is to get 17 points against only other novices.

I would advocate dropping the 17 point promotion rule, and thereby, making it more dificult to attain expert status.

Competitors have their licences signed in order to upgrade them for the benefit of future events. You, I imagine have a speed national B licence, unless you are eligible with your rally licence, and would need to upgrade to a national A in order to:

a) Drive certain classes of car, or....

b) To enter certain events of a higher licence classification

If you intend to continue to drive your car at Nat B events, then keep your licence in your pocket. I would advacate getting the signatures in case you want to upgrade in the future.

PS in the last year or two we introduced a beginners guide on the website. It was very useful. I wonder if we could expand on that with a pre season "roadshow" at all the area meets. Most areas have a competing member who may wish to do a talk or a question & answer session.

I would certainly have no objection to taking part in that, I remember how baffled I was when I first started!!

(Not sure if that's changed much)        

Anyone either in their first year or just wandering around the paddock thinking of competing, amble over to the Flymo (not difficult to miss) and have a chat, be nice to put some faces to names.

HTH

Tommo

[Rob Navin]

and seriously that's the one thing where very sadly comments like that have all lost the original ethos of the SS and does little to continue attraction for novices to the sport  

How would a novice looking at entering next year view such a comment........... it would look quite unwelcoming and somewhat elitist

When commenced in 1998 the championship, Tom was quite to the point and maintained that it was the ideal opportunity for a novice to win and be encouraged to get a rung onto the ladder of competition.

Tom had been around paddocks for more years than any of us and he knew what was needed to encourage drivers to take part and then onwards to develop their skills be that with the SS or other championships

Admittedly some folks weren't around in 1998 so perhaps do not fully appreciate matters     but many others were  

The Championship has been won by 2 experts in its time, so it is a proven equal and possible for all to attain honours from whatever class.

Most other championships can only be won by experts. The SS has always offered wins to novice and experts .............. and simply that experts must try that bit harder at times............. but surely this is not much to ask    

Some good points made which will hopefully be presented in a proper manner ...................... but please let us not damage our spirit and comerarderie by losing sight of what got us all into the sport and gives novices and experts an achievable goal  

I fail to see how most of the recent decissions made by the speed series comitiee tie in with what Tom first set out to acihive !

Perhaps I am missing th point but when Tom was at the helm what you have said was true Mark.

Since he has not been in the country running things with a sense of putting the series forward as an introduction to motorsport the whole thing has lost its way.  And I feel that the club as a whole is a poorer place for it.

For me, I voted with my feet and feel still feel slightly upset that I was forced in to that choice.

Its a sad state of affairs and I hope the membership can force a rethink to take things back to how they were, rather than the organisers trying to make the series something that they rather than the competitors want it to be.

BTW Mark, Tom always did and still does answer queries from the members !

[scott beeland]

I have to agree with Mr Navin here.

i've had 2 yrs away from the speed series (for both elective and forced reasons) but reading this and other threads; along with speaking to 1 or 2 seasoned sprinters/racers/builders over the year; i have to conclude that (to me) it seems the series is being forced away from it's "grass roots" ethos by the steering commitee.

in search of what?

the points system seems to have got very complicated; and is evidently still the subject of much consternation and hypothesising. the toyo issue could (depending on which way the vote goes) dissuade a lot of new entrants (on cost issues).

the issue over expert/novice status and the ability to win championship depending on status needs more reading on my part; as does the debate about championship leader ties....i will then make my own more informed opinion.

i may be back in the paddock at some point during 2007/2008 but it will only be as a "social " sprinter due to escalating cost of events and the lack of a trailer. behind the lens is where i'll probably be for the majority of events though.

for the sake of the series; i hope someone sees sense and simplifies things before it self destructs.

[scott beeland]

It does seem unfair to the seasoned campaigners who spend time, money and effort , data collection and interpretation to come second to a first year novicewho happens to have a faster car than everyone else.

Can't get my head around this atall??

Are you saying that 1st timer/newbies don't put in the same time and effort?

Because they don't log/analyse race data ; they don't deserve a level chance to win the championship?

Faster car? You don't give much thought then, that there might just be a naturally gifted newbie waiting in the wings who might just enter the series and take a series win through a combination of driving skill; luck with the weather; car reliability and a good choice of events entered?

[machin]

How would a novice looking at entering next year view such a comment........... it would look quite unwelcoming and somewhat elitist

Don't agree; I'm a Novice and the incentive is to beat the other "Novices", I have no illusion that I am in any way better than the people in the classes above me, and as a result I personally would feel a bit embarrassed to win the overall title against people who're much better.....

It has been suggested earlier that classes A and C should be amalgamated... everyone in road-going trim scores the same points but there is also a separate end of year prize for best Novice..... I agree; that way, if a very good Novice does come along and blows away the other opposition in C they CAN win the championship overall.... and we're not penalising the very good novices who come along, but we're also giving the Novices something to aim for.  As a Novice myself I'd go along with that.... afterall if we do other championships (as I do) as someone new to the sport your accustomed to being well down the order in the MSA classes...  I see this as an incentive to improve.

[machin]

As to what turns a Novice into an Expert... maybe if you do an event and beat 3 experts in your class (if A and C are amalgamated) this promotes you to expert status the following season?....  possibly needs a little more thought... but this at least means that you haven't got where you are by luck... you've beaten on the day people who are no longer considered novices....

[V 8]

It does seem unfair to the seasoned campaigners who spend time, money and effort , data collection and interpretation to come second to a first year novicewho happens to have a faster car than everyone else.

Can't get my head around this atall??

Are you saying that 1st timer/newbies don't put in the same time and effort?

Because they don't log/analyse race data ; they don't deserve a level chance to win the championship?

Faster car? You don't give much thought then, that there might just be a naturally gifted newbie waiting in the wings who might just enter the series and take a series win through a combination of driving skill; luck with the weather; car reliability and a good choice of events entered?

Sure, Scott, it is not an area you can generalise on, of course there are going to be the odd exceptions. I would have thought that in most cases, the more seasoned campaigners will have spent time and money on the car, & I also would have thought very few novices by definition would have spent time and effort on data logging and interpretation, as the very essence of this proceedure requires eperience and history.

In a novice's first year the time & effort will have gone into learning proceedure, tracks and driving, and yes, this is still effort. I am just saying that IMHO, the seasoned campaigner could also feel disincentivised in losing to a first timer because his competition was poor, had a quick car, or had an element of talent. If talent, then surely this is then going to shine through and have more justification and satisfaction when he wins the SS in the next expert class.

Pedantry aside, it suprises me that someone of your experience couldn't grasp my meaning all along

[V 8]

the issue over expert/novice status and the ability to win championship depending on status needs more reading on my part;

I'd get on with it then.......

[Terry Everall]

Please remember that if you satrt in E or F etc there are is no Novice Class

We are all in it together

[V 8]

Yes, in consideration of the number of aero'd cars around, that is a bit of an irony and contradiction.......mornin' Tel