The Stigs Helmet

[MVS]

I concur with Harv...

The visor law for bikes was brought in after either a perceived or actual risk of bikers keeping their dark visors down after dark. I can see the point, but I can also see that a clear visor, and an early summer morning or late summer evening combined with a clear visor can be just as dodgey...

Perfectly true.

This has been debated @ great length in the bike press over many years, with Biking MP's even lobbying Transport ministers too look @ it and apply some common sense, or new guidance documents.

Unfortunately it is the boys in blue that 'apply' the legislation, and your average traffic copper will nick his own mother, so how do you think they are likely to 'apply' the legislation.

IMHO I would wear shades under a clear or bike legal tinted visor, especially if your exhaust is a bit noisy, whilst out on a sunny Sunday Blat

[Blatman]

The thing is, wearing a lid in a car is not legislation driven, so you could argue that there is no real law to apply. Once in front of the beak, I would contest that it is *much* safer to wear *any* lid in an aeroscreened car than none at all, when the question of debris, vision, and any other road hazards are considered. I would try to structure the plea such that the CPS would have to prove that it was more dangerous to wear the illegal lid than not, and I suspect they would struggle to do so. Magistrates, whilst seemingly on the side of the police, are also reasonable people with a usually decent grip on common sense when presented with an unusual set of circumstances to test...

[Guest]

that and the data from snell on the test carried out on your motorsport helmet with refrence to a roll cage as apposed to a bike helmet would go a long way to favour your case (without wishing to start the whole carhelmet/bike helmet debate)

[ChrisG]

Im sure it is a slightly grey area and you could put a valid case forward if you had the time / money to do so, but Im only relaying what I was told by the copper.

I guess its a bit like fitting a windscreen or even headlights to a car, technically there's no requirement to have a windscreen or headlights (with a daylight MOT), but if they are fitted then they have to meet certain pieces of safety legislation. I'll accept that this legislation is set out for cars as opposed to taking legislation from bikes and transferring it over to car use, but I guess because there isnt specific legislation for cars, they default to the bike legislation because it could be considered eqully relevent to car use as it is on a bike, ie you're going along same road in same conditions with same visibility problems etc.

Not saying it's right though, or that this is how all officers would interpret it, but the information I got wasn't just an off the cuff verbal comment, it was an emailed reply so they had time to clarify the situation with superiors etc before sending the response.

Chris

[Blatman]

But I never consult coppers about the law, 'cos they don't apply it, they just interpret it as they see fit. If you roll over and cough, then you lose. If you contest it, then it's a magistrate who will apply and rule on the law being questioned.

If you want to know about a law, ask a solicitor or a lawyer, not a copper...

[Guest]

ok so say i wear a gp5 with a clear visor ?? in a fully caged car???

[Blatman]

There is no way we could say wether it's legal or not as there are, as far as I know, no precedents set in law. You'd have to be nicked and then appear at a court to test the law. You may win, you may lose. There is no way to tell...

[ChrisG]

Its all very well ignoring how the Police interpret the law, but they are the ones that will decide to push for prosecution or not. With a minor issue such as this, I think how the Police interpret things is more relevent than what the law states or doesnt state because if pulled for a minor offence such as wearing a dark visor in a car Im sure 99% of us would just pay the small fine and put it down to experience rather than take the time / money / risk involved in contesting the case.

[Guest]

tbh on this one i think i would like my day in court , defend myself ........ its only a minor offence and would be worth stating your case just for the satistfaction of  doing the research and presenting what could be a good case .

at the end of the day its not a points offence , your not likely to go to prisson so why not.

[Blatman]

The point I'm making is that you shouldn't be scared of a prosecution when the law is somewhat grey in this area. The police will nick because it's the safest thing to do from their perspective, when they are unsure. It's the magistrates job to rule on the case, not the coppers.

I agree with Harv...again...

[MVS]

At the end of all this it is going to be how you feel you want to go yourself. If you feel this strongly then you will 'maybe' get your way, on your day in court.

Some of us would rather not have the hassle and if it means wearing a stamped legal bike helmet with a bike legal dark visor, or a clear with sunglasses, it's not the end of the world.

The world needs people who feel strongly enough to stand up to and change the law, it just wouldn't be me on this one.  

[Guest]

there is no law ..hence what you changing ........

there is currently no law that says you cannot wear a crash helmet in a car so therefore wearing a non uk legal one cannot be wrong?

thats the whole point??

[Guest]

I agree with Harv...again...

you wanna be carefull not to do that too often........**

** romour has it i have paid the club money this month too  

[Blatman]

Kinda how I see it...

Also, I understand about not wanting to be in court yourself, BUT there is a small part of me that thinks this is somewhat symptomatic of our current society. No-one is willing to stand up and be counted when there is a principle or a law that needs challenging. This is why we have the government we have now, 'cos lots of us have simply resigned ourselves to being powerless. It's not right, and I for one will fight when I feel the fight is worthwhile and just. We have these rights as a result of those who fought for us and our liberties in the wars, and who continue to fight for those same rights and liberties in peace time in the courts. It's our job to keep them busy, not roll over, cough up and then complain about how bad things are.

Please note. NOT a rant or an attack against anybody, simply a discussion point which for some inexplicable reason, I felt like raising...

[Guest]

i  have a similar view , but unfortunately to many people in this country dislike people who are willing to stand up for what they believe in .

i'd like to think my views on many things were clear , the reason they are is because i clearly defend those views , right or wrong i amd happy to stand up for what i belive in.