geofff Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 neilwillis - only for 10 seconds to soften & warm. Eaten quickly will still be microwaving your insides as they go down Any tips for quick / cheap food & drink for a "driver chat" on race day are welcome. John - I know exactly what you mean about building a car which then goes out of spec. Even though I started a good ten months before you - slow builder! But when you think about it how many years were you thinking you'd get out of the car anyway? I know Keith has a fifteen year old car but I'm pretty sure he's replaced the body, engine, gearbox, diffs, suspension & maybe even chassis (Keith?). I was planning on body every two years - £1k. Engine refresh end of season£0.5k. Rod ends every season£0.2k. Gearbox refresh every two £0.2k. Tyres every season £0.5k. When you think of it you're replacing the car anyway. Which is why it's such a shame you cannot upgrade current cars to 1600 spec. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Which is why it's such a shame you cannot upgrade current cars to 1600 spec. Why not? Is it a mechanical, physical or regulatory reason? Either way, if lots of you upgrade the cars, you end up with a two class system that effectively splits the one class you have, grid sizes remain pretty static, and few factory sales. No-one wins. In my not so humble opinion, if you want bigger grids, you need to open the rules up, not lock them down further. Trouble is, with everyone having a vested interest in not changing things too much, things won't change too much, including grid sizes. You may well be slowly killing your series, but rather than be brave and have a shake up, you're happy to bury your heads in the sand and hope for the best. Madness! Why not apply some "business plan" type thinking? Very few businesses survive these days without some diversification and a little flexibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 1600 car is different chassis, body, suspension, engine. The only major component you keep is the gearbox and then you might end up changing ratios to suite the higher revving engine / power band. I won't comment on the rest as it would be my opinion and that won't change things for next year. So I'll just crack on with the regs I have and do as well as I can. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Trouble is, with everyone having a vested interest in not changing things too much, things won't change too much, including grid sizes. You may well be slowly killing your series, but rather than be brave and have a shake up, you're happy to bury your heads in the sand and hope for the best. Madness! Why not apply some "business plan" type thinking? Very few businesses survive these days without some diversification and a little flexibility... I Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Thanks for your opinions guys. And I guess that's where we'll agree to differ.... The rules and structure are the basis of the championship, you can't open it up and allow all comers without making the lines to blurry. That's not what the championship is about. The championship is no longer in decline and the numbers will be better next year, grids of 20+ should be common. I'm also pleased to say Keith Scarfe will be back next year which should certainly liven things up! Thanks Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 you can't open it up and allow all comers without making the lines to blurry. That's not what the championship is about. I don't think anyone has ever suggested an all comers merely perhaps a return to a two class structure as per early days of BARC series when grids were approaching 30+ and exclusive to Westfields of course Keith will remember those times he's old enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 I thought the only reason we had the two class arrangement previously was for transition between crossflow and zetec. Prior to that it was just one class for crossflow? Or was their a tuned the nuts of it class and a standard class? Or have I got it ar$e about t1t again? Obviously I'm way too young to remember crossflows in their glory days Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Scarfe Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Keith will remember those times he's old enoughOi. I resemble that comment. I'm also pleased to say Keith Scarfe will be back next year which should certainly liven things up!Yes I hope so depending on finances/time. Maybe won't do the whole championship, just the odd few races.I know Keith has a fifteen year old car but I'm pretty sure he's replaced the body, engine, gearbox, diffs, suspension & maybe even chassis (Keith?).Hmm.. Like the road sweeping brush in 'only fools and horses' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Ok Mark, sorry - my misunderstanding. You may be interested to know that the 1.8's Zetecs and 1.6's Duratecs will run side by side next year (its possible the only 1.6 entrant will be a factory car driven by Jim Bickley - we'll have to see who puts there hand in pocket). The 1.6 will be the faster of the two cars with it being 40 odd kilos lighter and a good 10% more powerful than a standard Zetec. What is being suggested by the factory is that the 1.6 car will be handicapped in some way to bring it's lap time down to those of the Zetecs (either by ballasting the car or holding back the revs/power - I'm not sure), but the idea will be to keep the cars fairly close for the next few years. Thanks Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobsy Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Geofff - I was planning on body every two years - £1k. Oi, this isn't touring cars. It's supposed to be non-contact out there. Two seasons and I've spent £66 on a pair of front wings up to now. Oh, and about the same on Duck tape! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VX2L16V Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 I was hoping to be able to race my westy somewhere in the next year or two but it's a vx on throttle bodies with carbon panelling and an aeroscreen so options seem to be extremely limited! Castle Coombe GT is about the only thing I would be able to race in (AFAIK) but to have those Jades flying past may be a little intimidating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 You might find something suitable in the 750MC Champiosnhip for kit cars ?? Its often said that for racing its best to find a series you want to enter and build a car to suit rather than build a car then struggle to find a championship and end up modifying Carbon panelling is not permitted in a few race championships as it is perceived as expensive and sometimes dangerous when shearing and splintering in an accident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 I was hoping to be able to race my westy somewhere in the next year or two but it's a vx on throttle bodies with carbon panelling and an aeroscreen so options seem to be extremely limited! Castle Coombe GT is about the only thing I would be able to race in (AFAIK) but to have those Jades flying past may be a little intimidating! Semsec and JCC Centurion are options. Not sure on 750 Car Club kit car classes, but there may be something there as well. You need to look harder. And no, I am not suggesting a free for all. I am suggesting that if you want more people to race, you need to make more cars eligible, not less. The problem is vested interest. That's not a criticism, just an observation. No-one with a 1.8 Zetec (former potential/only race winning car) wants to be suddenly slower because the rules have changed around it, although that may actually be the case anyway with the 1.6 cars. I fail to see the objection to my suggested 2 class system where the new class may be faster than the old class in light of this revelation. Seems it's OK for the factory to suggest/do it, but a suggestion from an outsider to do something similar is met with loud protests? Obviously the factory are in it to sell more cars, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. But you won't get bigger grids this way because the cost for newcomers is likely to be high unless there is some discount or sponsorship deal that I am unaware of. Aiming for 20+ is way down on the grids of high 20's and low 30's that I used to go to watch. I have been to very few Westfield races since the 1.8 Zetec class was brought in 'cos the ones I did make the effort for were boring to watch and they looked slow, same as most one make racing classes. And the new car may be so fast that they have to ballast it! So much for progress. Surely the best way to sell the 1.6 cars is to see it win by a large margin. Nothing wrong with showing off a good product. If it's seen to be so much faster, people will want them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Or was their a tuned the nuts of it class and a standard class? early days was X-flow class and a more "fluid" engine class The championship was won by various drivers from both classes. I think first winner was Chris Aspinall ?? who ran a 2 litre VX. John Grosvenor also won championship with a 1700 X-flow. Ian Stinton won with a 2 litre VX on slicks and wings Other engines appeared including Pinto, rover V8's and Vauxhalls all reflecting what was being purchased and fitment options being addressed by Westfield Later engine options became available and as such classes re-structured to suit - hence Zetecs and latterly ............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VX2L16V Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 I could do 750mc kits if I change to an open diff SEMSEC (Shame I'm SW but apart from that...) Caterham 7, Lotus 7, Westfield SE, or similar seven type cars Eligible for: SEMSEC Saloon & Sports Championship – Category C – classes 6 or 7 depending on capacity South East Sports & Saloon Challenge – Classes B, C or D depending on capacity or Caterham 7 or similar on road tyres from list of MSA General Regulations – Class D Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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