geofff Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Hi, Does anyone know anything abut a BARC formula meeting at the Westfield Factory regarding moving ahead with the series? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Scarfe Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Yes but it is not official/definite yet AFAIK. Planned for Saturday 12th November. Don't know any more. Maybe email Jon Morton and ask him. If you get anymore info let me know and I'll put something on the web site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobsy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Received a letter from Richard today. It's set for 12th November 2pm to 3pm. Email or phone Richard if you intend to attend. Agenda: How to increase grids. New 1600 class. Anything else. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 How to increase grids. Have often pondered why it is not possible to enter a Speed Series car into one or two races in the BARC championship? Didn't there used to be 2 or 3 classes of Westfields instead of just one? There are a lot of us with cars built to a set of regs in the SS that would maybe like to race in the Westy races but can't because car has to be built a lot differently. Some SS people go racing in the SEMSEC championship because it caters for all types of Westield & you can just turn up & race in whatever you own. Most people have the cars already but don't have the funds to build a new one again from scratch just to comply with the rules for the BARC championship. So In summary - if the championship is suffering from low numbers might it be an idea to create more classes to allow a variation of car types / capacities / road going / non road going etc to compete in the same race together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMackay Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Great idea Windy! Look at the MGB/C/V8 series they dont seem to suffer from small grids and there are some serious lap time differences across the grid. (and, no a yellow escort cant be classed/entered as a westfield!!! Does the BARC series ever get to Snetterton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 How to increase grids. Have often pondered why it is not possible to enter a Speed Series car into one or two races in the BARC championship? Didn't there used to be 2 or 3 classes of Westfields instead of just one? There are a lot of us with cars built to a set of regs in the SS that would maybe like to race in the Westy races but can't because car has to be built a lot differently. Some SS people go racing in the SEMSEC championship because it caters for all types of Westield & you can just turn up & race in whatever you own. Most people have the cars already but don't have the funds to build a new one again from scratch just to comply with the rules for the BARC championship. So In summary - if the championship is suffering from low numbers might it be an idea to create more classes to allow a variation of car types / capacities / road going / non road going etc to compete in the same race together? Gotta agree with that. I'd be very tempted to join in if there was a suitable class structure that enabled more of us to go racing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hi, I think there is a difference of large grids from a spectators point of view and a large grid from a drivers point of view. Lots of classes dilute the experience for me. I don't fancy five classes with six cars in each, I'd prefer to stay with a smaller grid of twenty all in the same class. A "race what you bring" series is not what I'm after. The idea of a single make series is that the driver is the difference between the cars and not the engineer. It's horses for courses. Last year we were getting late teens as an average. I think with the newbies (me included) that are joining the series it will be back into the low twenties this year. You can pick up a BARC car second hand for as little as £6k or build a (race only) one for £8k. I don't think cost is stopping people entering. I would suggest it's promotion. I mean if you ask WF owners about the BARC race series they think you're talking about the Speed Series - fair play to you Speed guys I say You're promoting, making people aware and setting up a good social scene around the series. Who's doing that with the BARC series? I think to a certain extent the psychology is a bit different between the two formats - although I stand to be corrected The Speed Series I would have thought (must get along to one I know) would produce a drivers vs "The track / hill" feeling where as the BARC series produces a driver vs driver contest. This may not encourage (quite so much) the social side of things. Anybody got any other comments? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 You don't need 5 or 6 classes, just 2. The current formula as Class A, and Class B can be anything else. The vast majority of cars in the Speed series are road going, and a single catch all class would almost certainly see bigger grids, BUT I suspect that a 2 class structure would favour the "Class 2B" Speed Series cars which are usually 2.0l and above. Most of us would just need to add a set of rims with the correct tyres and remove the screen, and we could race. I mean if you ask WF owners about the BARC race series they think you're talking about the Speed Series - fair play to you Speed guys I say You're promoting, making people aware and setting up a good social scene around the series. Who's doing that with the BARC series? Size matters. The Speed Series has getting on for 7 or 8 times the number of people registered as competitors compared to the race series, and you don't need to do anything special to the car to come and play. Race series cars *are* more focused, meaning there is a limited supply of potential competitors compared to the Speed Series where just about every car has a place, and needs minimal modification to comply with the regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hi Blatman, A few problems with that structure: First any new competitor is going to look at the classes and say I'll enter "Class B / anything goes" because it gives more build freedom - that is what a lot of people like about kit cars. Also the "race what you've brung" class will get more support (because it will be easier to enter) drowning out the 'racer' class. Our objective is to increase grid size of the series not start a new series remember. Again new entrants will tend to the more popular class. "Class B" will be faster than "Class A". Not a problem with me but there is a lot of kudos with "winning" the race not just your class. This will also effect entrants into the class A field - reducing it. Having a catch all class would be a short term fix but long term would be an extra nail in the coffin. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Navin Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 The trouble with a one make race series is there are too many of them on offer at the moment ! Every time you read Motersport news there is another being launched. Why not try to tweek the rules to allow other cars in, IE 750 Kits or the like. People want value for money out of racing and one car, lots of championships may draw them in. Just my thourghts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Then you need to make it attractive and cost effective for the novice particularly - cos that's where future entrants are I am a new entrant (to the WF series) and I do think it's cost effective and attractive. That's why I chose it As for cross over - we need Mr Mowbray's opinion as he is the only driver, I know, who has switched over. The only new class (1600 Duratec) which is being proposed, at the moment, is probably more expensive - and probably slightly slower - a lot would depend on tyre / suspension rules though - slicks would make it quicker I reckon. And cost will depend a lot on the Factory - so would have to see. I costed up a locost, 750MC kitcar, WF BARC and a few others (all new race car build) and there isn't much in it. Second hand is a similar story. As for driver input to the social scene - I know how much time it took me to do those write up's this year and talk to all the drivers. And I still reckon I could have got round to more people and have done a better job if I'd put more time in. If I'm racing I want to put 100% of my race day time into racing. And as for preparation before race day for any social activity Hah! See previous postings on this board - engine swallowed a washer, & gearbox out and stripped to find a problem with my clutch fork - DOH! I think I need to be spending more time on the prep / racing rather than organising social scene - I think most drivers in the BARC series are in the same boat. When I spoke to drivers last year the ideas which really jumped out, at me, were - support lorry with spares & a hospitality galley / tent. I know the Caterham racers contribute for a hospitality area and I know the Ginetta factory bring a spares / support lorry. I would be happy to contribute if such services (with quality & committment) were made available. They would increase dramatically both support to racers and the sense of a social environment. The BIG "but" is....I could not afford to commit the time to organising this, could any other racer? The only social organising I'll be doing next year will relate to 'my' spanner teams sleeping arrangements / alchohol needs / and a hearty breakfast - which I can handle - bring a bottle and you'll be welcome on a Saturday night! We'll be the bunch sleeping in a tent and eating around the disposable barbie! Anything else I'm happy to contribute, but I believe I'm doing my bit by turning up and providing the entertainment I'm aware I'm shooting ideas down here rather than thinking them up. I'll shut up now and do some listening instead. Any one any ideas? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hi Blatman,A few problems with that structure: First any new competitor is going to look at the classes and say I'll enter "Class B / anything goes" because it gives more build freedom - that is what a lot of people like about kit cars. Also the "race what you've brung" class will get more support (because it will be easier to enter) drowning out the 'racer' class. Our objective is to increase grid size of the series not start a new series remember. Again new entrants will tend to the more popular class. "Class B" will be faster than "Class A". Not a problem with me but there is a lot of kudos with "winning" the race not just your class. This will also effect entrants into the class A field - reducing it. Having a catch all class would be a short term fix but long term would be an extra nail in the coffin. Ta Geoff You're going to struggle if the plan is to keep the current class as the pinnacle. BARC Westfields are quick, but there are plenty of Westfields in the SS that will murder them over a lap/race. Unless you restrict them to 1A tyres, or rev limit them or some other form of control. That just produces artificial racing though, which again is rather pointless for clubbies... Having a slower class that costs more is dumb, IMHO. Who wants to pay all that to race slowly? Buy a Modsaloon... IMO, sacrifices will need to be made to improve grid numbers. You need to make it easier for people to come in, not harder. So far, all your points make the series more unnatractive than it already is, whilst currently I could race in the 750 Club kit class, the SEMSEC, and probably Castle Comb GT's without having to spend any money at all on the car. And as Mark has noted, people leaving the SS don't go to Westfield BARC, which should really be the natural place to go. So you *must* ask why this is. You may not like the answer, but that's racing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I costed up a locost, 750MC kitcar, WF BARC and a few others (all new race car build) and there isn't much in it. So WHY have so many SS guys that wanted to get into circuit racing gone over to various 750MC championships but to name a few: Richard Brown, Nick Lear, Jamie Robinson, Martin Brookes, Lindsay Pointon, David Jones, Jonathon Weston-Taylor, John Thackray and I'm sure I've forgotten a few + there'll be others in 2006. Why isn't the BARC attractive to these folks experienced in Westfields and yet choose to elsewhere. I know you're new on the scene for this year and my full admiration to you for supporting the BARC - I wish it every success there are some quality drivers and nice guys - but it could be so much more successful and its not merely about socialising the night before a race - yes, car prep is far more important - but over here we don't hear of you guys having any form of craic at all why I know you're not boring old farts and enjoy what you do and feel passonate about it. And why isn't there a specific end of season awards or get together - from what history I know there's only ever been one end of season bash The WSCC SS Awards doo's have always been well attended - why not join in and combine You talk of wanting support vehicles - great idea - it needs an independant organisation and financing - have you approached any I can only give an example and I wish not to offend but the WSCC SS has attracted support from such folks as Play Skool - have the BARC similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hi Blatman, I think we'll just have to wait and see what comes out of the meeting. Hopefully someone will have some neat ideas ∨ someone will compromise. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hi Mark, Whoa everyone please. I'm feeling all beaten up I agree with a lot of points being raised. I agree something needs to be done - and MUCH more importantly the factory do So we are already moving in the right direction. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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