Throttle bodies on 1800 zetec madness

[MAT1800]

Hello All,

I have a new Madness kit, purchased complete form WF, SVA passed July.

I want to convert it to throttle bodies, at the moment it is on standard Ford injection with a MBE ECU.

I have been emailing Jenvey who have been very helpfull. They have read through my waffle about what I have and what I want to do. Someone from Jenvey, also a  WF owner who has experience of the Madness kits,  has recomended I purchase the following bits.

TBP40i bodies, TBR22 rails and 4No ah45x19 horns.

This is apparently a fairly simple conversion, and the MBE ECU can be re-mapped perhaps by WF, or somewhere else.

My question is (I have done a search, but wanted to ask, besides new posts are what keeps this forum alive, surely?    )

In order to ensure I can afford this conversion before commiting to buy the various components I wanted to know if there were any other parts I would need, such as an air filter. Also how do I go about the re-mapping, could I send the ECU off to WF for a 'standard' TB map to be put on, or (as I presume is the case) should I take the car to some where with rolling road facilities so I can get it set up properly. If so who? and what do you think the approx cost would be?

I would also like your honest opinion on wether someone, who's only mecahnical experience is building the car, should attempt this conversion, or would I be far better off saving up and getting it done by the proffesionals? Also if I was to do it myself, would it be driveable with the current map to take it some where to get it remapped (no trailer) Or has anyone got a 'good enough' map I could copy, buy the necessary leads etc, and put it on the MBE using eaymap, then take it to a RR session??

     

Cheers,

Mat.  

[KerryS]

Flippin heck - you've only had it a few minutes!

Be interested in this one though, Mat, it's crossed my mind to do as well but after I have had the car for, say, 12 months.

Kerry S

[thos]

What MBE ecu is it that you have at present ?

I know Scholar will sell you a complete throttle body kit, £1300~ which includes everything you need throttles bodies, manifold, horns, fuel rail, injectors, ecu (pre-mapped), loom, sensors, air filter + backplate etc.

If you try and change you're current config to run throttle bodies you may run into diffiiculites with the loom - different sensors, different injector types.

Apart from the bits Jenvey mentioned - you would be looking at new injectors, new air-temp sensor, manifold, air filter + backplate,

Getting a map shouldnt be a problem, I've got an 1800 starter map here for an MBE 967 ECU.

[MAT1800]

   

Yeah, that was my plan too Kerry, but you should try keeping up with the Manc. possie ! !    

Although to be honest I was holding some money aside to cover unforseen eventualities, and I can't see any coming.  

And it's actually (so far) a lot less than I was expecting, due to so much of the existing injection system being reusable.

You might be pleasantly surprised.  

Mat.  

[MAT1800]

What MBE ecu is it that you have at present ?

I know Scholar will sell you a complete throttle body kit, £1300~ which includes everything you need throttles bodies, manifold, horns, fuel rail, injectors, ecu (pre-mapped), loom, sensors, air filter + backplate etc.

If you try and change you're current config to run throttle bodies you may run into diffiiculites with the loom - different sensors, different injector types.

Apart from the bits Jenvey mentioned - you would be looking at new injectors, new air-temp sensor, manifold, air filter + backplate,

Getting a map shouldnt be a problem, I've got an 1800 starter map here for an MBE 967 ECU.

Thos,

I'm not sure but will check tonight and post in the morning.

Those 'complete kits are what I thought I'd have to buy, which is why I was going to wait, but after reading previous posts on here I was begining to wonder, which is why I contacted Jenvey.

Are you sure I'd need new injectors, sensors ?

I agree the air filter etc, is needed.

The manifold I also thought was not necessary as I think these will fit directly onto my engine. Although I could be wrong, hence this post    

Mat.  

[michaelcoombs]

I have just done the conversion from a sort of standard set up with an omex ecu to gsxr throttle bodies,

you will defiantly need a different set of injectors as the ford ones feed in a different way (from the side as opposed to through the top) the throttle position sensor may also be different due to the way it mounts. You will also need a different fuel pressure regulator as the ford one in part of the injector rail, (I am using a rover k-series one, £4 from the local breakers).... but other than that it was not a lot involved.

[thos]

The manifold I also thought was not necessary as I think these will fit directly onto my engine. Although I could be wrong, hence this post    

Only if you bought DTH - Direct To Head throttle bodies, the TBP40i still require a manifold.

[KerryS]

Think you'll find it's a MBE 977BA560 marked up to say "Ford Coolant Input"

The Scholar kit sounds OK. At the risk of lots £££ - have you asked WF?

When I bought the kit, one of the perceived advantages was that the Madness kit was plug n'play whereas the throttle bodied car needed to be returned for mapping. In the end, mine had to go back for re-mapping anyway      

So the plan failed

Kerry S

[steppenwolf]

If you can build the car, I reckon you can do the mechanical aspects of the upgrade yourself but the loom may worry you! As it happens, the loom shouldn't worry you, it is all rather logical but that is easy to say ........

A starter map from one of use here will get you going but a proper rolling road session is what you will really want and this could cost between £250 and £500. I did my own mapping based on the WF 'standard map' while the RR operator told me where he wanted more or less fueling!

I don't know how much WF would charge for everything you need but this would be the 'safe route' as they will know exactly what components will be required and should also be able to supply a suitable loom.

[MAT1800]

Cheers Kerry,

Mine went back to, but it was better for it.  

I had envisaged doing this from the start, at  the time I couldn't afford to get any more than the 'standard' kit. But I was hoping I would be able to convert it in the future.

I agree WF will be worth talking to, they always are.    I just wanted to get my head around what options I had, so I wasn't wasteing their time, before I spoke to them.  

I had checked out the OMEX kits but at £2000 it was a bit expensive...(understatement)

 

The Scholar kit at £1,300 would of course be better, cheers to Thos, but I wanted to know if I needed all of that, and I also like the look (and reports) of the Jenvey's .

If that's my best option pricewise and because it's a kit, I can do kits.    then I will probably wait and do that over winter.

Another otpion I was considering (bit off topic, but I did start the post    ) was to get some cams the KENT KCFZ1802K again a kit. which I could do and install myself, but again, would I have to get it remapped, prior to driving, or just prior to driving 'properly'....

So little money so much power wanted.      

Mat.

*** Cheers Stephen, need to type faster,    I'll Email WF tommorow and see what they have to say, I just don't want to mess them around, asking for details of kit I can't afford, or then realise I can source cheaper direct, but I don't mind paying a little bit more for the knowledge and advice, they could offer. ***

[MAT1800]

OK,

I'm more confused now than I was before...  

Just kidding thanks guys.

I'm off home now to check engine parts etc, drool over the various magazines, and come up with imaginative ways to make loads sa moneey.

Just one thought, how about a 'madness kit builders' bulk buy ?     Thought not. oh well.

I'll be back in the morning tho' armed with part numbers, credit cards limits    and dreams....

So please keep the suggestions coming.

BFN

Mat.  

[thos]

The Scholar kit at £1,300 would of course be better, cheers to Thos, but I wanted to know if I needed all of that, and I also like the look (and reports) of the Jenvey's .

Scholar use Jenvey throttle bodies.

Mmmm, throbble totties

No comments I the size of my horns please, I've since enlarged them  

[Peter M]

Hi thos

See in the above post you have a 1800 starter map for mbe 967.

Got a problem where my new build will not idle.See my posts in techie talk.

Need possibly to remap according to westfield,they supplied the ecu again as kerry said hope was just plug'n'play but is not.

Thanks

Peter

[deano.1]

I found Simon at Jenvey to be more than helpfull, oh and the cheapest!

[thos]

Hi thos

See in the above post you have a 1800 starter map for mbe 967.

Got a problem where my new build will not idle.See my posts in techie talk.

Need possibly to remap according to westfield,they supplied the ecu again as kerry said hope was just plug'n'play but is not.

Thanks

Peter

The map is for throttle bodies though, cant see it being much use on a std injection.