American GP

[Bazzer]

I seem to remember in one of the GP's a few years ago Brigestone failed to bring an intermediate tyre to the race. When it started raining the whole field was forced to start the race behind the safety car as it was deemed too dangerous.

The Michelin runners had intermediate tyres and could have raced, but it was still deemed necassary to run behind the safety car anyway.

Surely this is a similar situation apart from the dissadvantaged cars were not red :-)

Cheers

Bazzer

[DavidC]

Yep, it was the Brazilian GP 2003.

[DickieB]

I wonder how much pressure (if any) Bridgestone put on Ferrari, Jordan, Minardi to race regardless?

[Matt Seabrook]

From FIA.com

Formula One is a sporting contest.  It must operate to clear rules.  These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner.  We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess.  However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount.  They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules.  The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres.  They did not need to slow down.  The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One.  It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that “tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances” (see correspondence attached).

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting.  It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes.  It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

The reason for this debacle is clear.  Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable.  Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

What about the American fans?  What about Formula One fans world-wide?  Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13.  The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race.  As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules.

To read the correspondence between the FIA and all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1 & 2, 2005, please click here.

[pistonbroke]

The fans should'nt have allowed the race to start  

Back in 76' James Hunt was involved in a first corner crash, he made it back to the pits by the back entrance (ooh err missus)   they wer'nt going to allow him to take the restart so the fans from the startline down to Paddock bend started chucking everything they could lay their hands on, onto the track, and making lots of threatening noises, eventually they allowed Hunt to take the start, he won beating Lauda   but they later took it off him in court    but at least we got 'our' race    that was my first ever 'live' GP and I've been hooked ever since  

Just like you Hurdsey !

everywhere ya go

Always causing bother

actually was there me self,  Brilliant day

Mob Rules are best at times , but I dont think that would happen today

For one you can't get near enough to the track any more to chuck a tinnie

and all that impenatrable fencing they fitted to block the view ?

Just been watching some TT bikes on't telly 175mph through  narrow bumpy village streets. brick walls and lamp posts , manhole covers curbs the works .

Them lads earn there brass and enthuse about it .

When you listen to the modern F1 lot all they do is harp on about safety,and they all sound as if their board to tears with the whole thing.    

Don't really think the spectator really matters any more to any of em , all they care about is  cowtowing to the sponsers and  paymasters

Afraid there just isnt one  character amongst them  , not one of em inspire !

Where are the modern day   Rindts,  Amons , Petersons , Sifferts , Rodrigues, Surtees'   etc.

The most we can say is the USGP gave us  something to talk about for a change    

         

[Barry Ashcroft]

So the teams have been charged with bringing F1 in to disrepute. I guess a dead driver was better in the FIA's view then. Bizzare

After the legal battles sourrounding Senna's death you can't blame the teams for being sensibly about the information given to them by the tyre manufacturing experts.

Barry

[Lurksalot]

I think that the weekends events were ludicrous but I do fear that the farce is just commencing

[DENNISTHEMENACE]

Bridgestone own Firestone, who run at Indy a lot...

Who makes tyre choice at Monaco, Canada and other non testing circuits then?

Michelin were at US GP in 2004  

[Blatman]

Bridgestone did not test!

Bridgestone own Firestone, who run at Indy a lot...

Blats how ya doin bud? R u gonna ring a taxi for him or shallI?

R U up for a beer this weekend at Curboro?

Buzz

Yes matey. I'll be there with a Stella or two to consume

[DENNISTHEMENACE]

Yes matey. I'll be there with a Stella or two to consume

You tested Stella at Curboro  before?            

[Blatman]

Yup

Tyre technology moves probably as fast as other technologies on the cars. In which case, last years data will only be of any use if they use last years tyres, which clearly they weren't.

I think Indianapolis presents a unique situation due to the high speed banking on the turn in question. It's certainly different from every other F1 track in this respect, so the tyre loadings will be different too. I realise that these things can be "tested" on a computer etc etc, but there's nothing like doing it for real. I think that *because* Indianapolis is unique in a way that no other track is, tyre testing should be considered at that venue. Add in the new surface, and I think tyre testing is practically a necessity. And yes, I realise that there are folk saying that the surface is not a factor, but you only find that out after testing, surely? And I think it is accepted that Bridgestone probably had some useful *up to date* data to work with in advance of the event.

[Martin Keene]

I think that the weekends events were ludicrous but I do fear that the farce is just commencing

I fear that may be very true, I think we're all about to find out just how petty and bl**** minded Max and his cronies can be...

Anybody up for some sprinting at the weekend...

[Buzz Billsberry]

Veteran British driver David Coulthard - long a beacon of sense in a sport flooded with people with an over-inflated sense of their own importance - cut to the heart of the issue.

I have no words to describe how damaging this is for F1. I am sick in the stomach to be part of this," the Scot told BBC Radio Five Live after seven of the 10 teams pulled out of the race because Michelin could not guarantee the safety of its tyres.

"That mature adults were not able to put on a show for everybody is very sad."

It is maturity - or the lack of it - where F1's problem lies, and not just in this one case.

Too many of the sport's key decision-makers cannot see the bigger picture because they are blinkered by their attachment to the sport's increasingly labyrinthine rules or blinded by petty political rivalries

Of course, everyone involved had a valid point of view at Indianapolis on Sunday.

Ferrari and their tyre supplier Bridgestone were, for example, quite right to ask why they should be penalised for Michelin's error - a mistake that had opened the door to their first win in an unusually poor season for the Italian team.

Any number of solutions were possible, even if all of them had their inherent problems.

But what was needed was someone who could cut through the fog of self-interest and find a solution to staging a race.

And it is worrying for the entire future of the sport - let alone its future in America - that no-one could do that on Sunday.

In the past, that man would have been F1 impresario Bernie Ecclestone.

But perhaps his decision to leap into bed with Ferrari in the political row that threatens to tear the sport apart has terminally harmed his position as F1's deal-maker extraordinaire.

It is difficult not to view the problems at Indianapolis as tied up in that row.

Seven teams and five of the sport's car manufacturers have threatened to set up a rival championship in 2008 because they want a greater say in F1's future and a bigger cut of its finances.

Ecclestone (left) and other officials failed to solve F1's problems on Sunday

Crucially, they have also lost faith in the impartiality of FIA president Max Mosley, a view that will not have been erased by his organisation's intransigent response to Sunday's crisis.

In that sense, the US Grand Prix offered a haunting view of F1's future.

If no compromise is reached, then it will not have been the last Grand Prix race involving Ferrari and a bunch of also-rans.

For their own sake as much as that of the sport's fans, F1's bosses need to put aside their differences and bang their heads together until they come up with a solution.

If they fail, a sport steeped in more than a century's worth of history could well be consigned to it

The high lighted area for sure says it all for me Well said David Mcoulthard

Buzz

[Blatman]

the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13.  The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race.

How on earth would that have been a race? F1 again interprets the rules to hand Ferrari a win whilst claiming that F1 is racing.

At least I now know why the FIA bigwigs all seem to be shorter than average. They're obviously disappearing up their own arses....

[Buzz Billsberry]

Your right Blats but for me as mention it was the high lighted area

Don't for get FIA stands for Ferrari's Institute of a********s

At least I now know why the FIA bigwigs all seem to be shorter than average. They're obviously disappearing up their own arses....

the brown mated hair syndrome!!

Buzz