Mark Stanton Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Thought it was the most interestin GP for a couple of years crackin entertainment What the about the yanks paying 85 dollars for a ticket and they wanted a refund Just shows how much folks are being ripped off and exploited in the UK Quote
Coxy Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 What the about the yanks paying 85 dollars for a ticket and they wanted a refund Just shows how much folks are being ripped off and exploited in the UK That thought crossed my mind too, I thought I had heard it wrong at first, at $85 to see 6 cars it probably works out about the same as a full grid in the UK Quote
markcoopers Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 That honour goes to Ferrari. As soon as they saw the chance of getting 18 points for free, they were never going to agree to anything that would resolve this matter. So driven by their usual short-term, unenlightened, self-interest, and in complete disgregard for the image of the sport, or for the fans who have paid to watch a race, they pursued their short-term interest. They are a disgrace to the sport. Err nothing to do with Ferrari, despite what you so strongly believe. Don't get me wrong. I too thought this, but unfortunately the facts don't support it. 9 out of the 10 teams said they would only race if the Chicane was in place, Ferrari had no view, did not side one way or the other. Jordon and Minardi then renaded on this for their own reason. Ferrari did side with the FIA in that any change would have to be voted on and agreed on by all 10 teams. Some rumours say they did not get an invite to attend the meeting, but we're into speculation here. Ferrari bashing is easy and all well and good, but they sell cars in the USA, and have been in F1 for quite some time now. They have no more self interests than any of the other commercial teams. The Fans lost, the FIA are to Blame, Michelin are the scapegoats and the F1 will force through the single tyre manufacture rule. Some democray hey? Quote
chrisbin Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Simon Rockman reports from the Indianapolis grandstand on the F1 farce I was there, and it was bizarre. The stands seem to fill in sections with a particular allegiance, the Columbians for Montoya and so on. I was with a crowd of Indians backing Narain Karthikeyan, so they weren’t sure what to make of their man being in the points, but this soon changed to near-riot. It was odd being in among such anger and it not feeling dangerous. One huge difference between Indianapolis and any other circuit is scale. Everywhere else that F1 goes it’s the biggest event held at the circuit. Indianapolis is built for the 300,000 people that attend the Indianapolis 500 so there is no overcrowding for the 100,000 or so F1 fans. Some of the souvenir stands don’t even open for the small F1 race. This scale helped in diffusing the emotion. It would have been very different at Monza. There was a chronic lack of information, I’d spoken to a friend at one of the teams around 9am and he’d said that they still didn’t have any tyres, but that he couldn’t see the race not happening. I did think it a little strange that Bernie spent so much time on the grid talking to Minardi boss Paul Stoddart, and I said to my friend that I was pleased we moved from turn 13 to the start-finish straight because I didn’t feel safe at the turn, but these things only come into focus with hindsight. I’d seen the story on the BBC Web site saying that the race was going ahead, and the atmosphere was great. There was a feeling that F1, was, at last, coming to America. For a lot of people I spoke to before the race it was their first experience of F1. I guess it will be their last. The mailman in front of me had driven 1,000 miles from Texas. We chatted about how it was unusual for a Black American to be interested in F1. The Indians next to me had flown from North Carolina. If F1 had a toehold it was that motorsport in the US is so redneck the ethnic minorities avoid it. Of course that toehold is gone. If F1 cars can’t even do 73 laps with one fast turn when Indy cars to hundreds with four it makes F1 look pretty feeble. Perhaps I would have been better advised not to have used the jibe about roundy-roundy racing being “a girls sport”. Mass hysteria is an odd thing. The unison of 100,000 people stamping and shouting “bulls***” was almost carnival. Those that watched on TV and deplore the throwing of the pint sized Foster cans should try to appreciate the fervor that I thought was going to lead to a track invasion. In the stands it felt as though they wanted to kill someone. In the pits it was as though someone had died. With nothing to do expect half pack-up my friend got me into the paddock. Where teams usually crowd around flat screens showing the race and telemetry information there were packing cases being filled. The photographers were stalking Bernie and not the drivers. A crowd emerged from an hospitality suite to shout at F1’s Davros and he fixed each one of them with a stare. The Ferrari team tried hard at the podium, but their cheers were drowned by the crowd’s jeers. Rumours started flying around the pit of how dangerous it was to leave. Apparently a cameraman had been attacked. There were a thousand angry people at the administration building. The BAR team changed out of uniform just in case. Drivers were given police motorcycle escorts as they left. They say that in war there are no winners, the same was true at Indianapolis. But perhaps the most worrying thing for F1 in the US was the non-ironic comment from a colleague in the office on Monday morning when I said I’d been to the race: “what race?”. Quote
pistonbroke Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 I cant understand WHY ? The size of the F1 organisation and the money involved , was there no contingency plan for this sort of event . Surely some one could have predicted this sort of situation with the 1 set of tyre rules currently being applied ! Why was there no back up plan ? Not exactly the first time a GP has been threatend with boycot , what the heck does Moseley & co do to earn there bucks What a mess they got themselves into Time for a clean sweep ? Quote
Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 The fans should'nt have allowed the race to start Back in 76' James Hunt was involved in a first corner crash, he made it back to the pits by the back entrance (ooh err missus) they wer'nt going to allow him to take the restart so the fans from the startline down to Paddock bend started chucking everything they could lay their hands on, onto the track, and making lots of threatening noises, eventually they allowed Hunt to take the start, he won beating Lauda but they later took it off him in court but at least we got 'our' race that was my first ever 'live' GP and I've been hooked ever since Quote
DENNISTHEMENACE Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 I say it's fair that the bridgestones went out. If Michelin makes a tyre that can't handle thr track they shouldn't complain when they find out that the tyre can't handle the track! Change the track to suit a tyremaker? Kudo's to the FIA that they didn't change it, teams should obey the rules and not change them as it suits them. I agree 100% Is this *totally* Michelins fault? Do the FIA allow tyre testing at Indianapolis? Did they allow tyre testing after the new "Diamond Cut" surface was laid? If not, then how were Michelin to know what to expect? I have some sympathy for their position in this. Well, yes it is. The tyres were FAULTY due to a manufacturing problem. Bridgestone did not test! Rules is Rules. The FIA took the only option, follow the rule book as I know you all do in your areas lf motorsport. The people I feel sorry for are the spactators "live and TV" Maybe, just maybe, ifI had the choice I would have put a chicane in and allowed everbody to run with NIL POINTS to Michelin runners, But there again, would I make that choice knowing Michelin tyre were only good for 2or 3 laps with a chicane. Could I allow them to race 70 laps on known faulty tyres. That's unknown territory and MUST have been discussed by FIA and teams/Michelin. The FIA I am sure could not take that risk either. When Schuey got a couple of punctures at Imola? Ferrari pulled him out of the race. Did'nt hear Ferrari whinge onto FIA and Bernie to cancel race or change track. If Renaults tyre are no good after 2/3 of the race do we shorten all the races to suit? Oh sorry, another Michelin problem. It's down to Michelin 100% their tyre caused the problem, no one else to blame See FIA FIA charges Michelin teamsFIA Charge Michelin Quote
Labrat Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Surely, if Michelin thought they could bring in tyres that would survive, then the Michelin teams should have used them to salvage whatever they could? OK, the FIA will penalise them. So what? The Bridgestone runners were going to run off into the distance anyway, but they may have had reliability problems, and opened the points up to others. Its just the nature of racing isn't it? The rules define the formula and the teams have to work around them and suffer the consequences when they make mistakes. It's just a shame that so many teams were affected by someone's error. It does seem like everyone was at least partly to blame for the race being lame, but at the end of the day I think all this has shown is how money orientated, and pathetic the 'sport' is. In my opinion they should have asked the drivers what they wanted to do, and then got those who wanted to race to sign a disclaimer so they could go out and earn their huge pay packets! Rant over. I'm going to hide now to avoid the flak, Luke Quote
Blatman Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Bridgestone did not test! Bridgestone own Firestone, who run at Indy a lot... Quote
Buzz Billsberry Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Bridgestone did not test! Bridgestone own Firestone, who run at Indy a lot... Blats how ya doin bud? R u gonna ring a taxi for him or shallI? R U up for a beer this weekend at Curboro? Buzz Quote
Mark Stanton Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Bridgestone own Firestone, who run at Indy a lot... eackerlee........ and it was stated that Firestone supplied bridgestone with some data from recent Indy/Nascar races held at the circuit which bridgestone used to supply their tyres In some ways you gotta give credit to Michelin (even if they are French) for saying that their tyres weren't up to it and not in a fit state for use as it stood At least someone in F1 was trying to be honest Quote
SADDLEWORTH Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 I`m going to assen on thursday to watch the moto gp which is far better than F1 Quote
Lurksalot Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 An interesting link in this instance is FIA.com they have publshed the correspondence betwwen michelin and the fia it is fairly self explanatory. Quote
cast iron Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 I have given up watching it last year, but started again as it got a bit more interesting this year. Now it's just descended into farse. Time for a big and long overdue change at the top, kick the FIA out and get someone with some brains running it. Anyone fancy a job, there's more sense talked on here than at F1 Nick if your not going to be watching F1 any chance of some arch protectors for my narrow bodied car? More chance of the FIA changing the tyre rules Quote
Carl Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 I don't buy the Michelin argument for the "Diamond cut" surface. At that speed, with alot of downforce, around a gentle curve there would be no tire slip, therefore the surface is largely irrelevant. My guess is Michelin dropped a clanger, we've already seen they get up to temp alot quicker, I reckon they under estimated the loads on turn 13 thus over stessing / heating the outside tyre wall. Quote
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