Darrell O'Neill Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 OK, well here goes.... Getting myself real confused over the ignition system setup thingy. What is the main difference between 2D and 3D? I understand its more mappable but what difference would that actually make to the car? : Im currently running 2.0VX with what i've been told is a 2D alpha-webber ignition system, which I understand can only be adjusted by an approved agent Ive tried searching but all that does is confuses me even more.... Im just trying to understand what the devil this is all about What would I gain? what would the cost be? which system would be worth upgrading to? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 AIUI, the difference between 2D and 3D is that you have a throttle position sensor. You can thus adjust the ignition timing based both on the current engine conditions, but also on the demand from the driver. I guess this means you get smoother running over the full throttle range at a certain RPM? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-rad Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 AIUI 2D maps ignition according to engine RPMs only and 3D brings engine load into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Errr....isn't that what I said? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Basically what 3d means to your car and driving experience is as follows: Far less popping/banging from the exhaust on the overrun, as there won't be any unburnt fuel in there as the spark will be in the right place at the right time at 0% throttle Slightly better fuel economy due to the above Potentially better throttle response as the ignition map will be taking into account the throttle position therefore allowing the engine to get the spark 'just right' All of the above contributes to much smoother running engine. If I were you, junk the alpha ECU and get a MegaJoltLiteJr or similar and use the same sensors if you can. That way you've got a nice easy solution that you can use your laptop to program to your hearts content. My xflow has had a new lease of life since it was installed... Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell O'Neill Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 Thyanks guys the mist is beginning to get clearer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMustBeJoking Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I seem to recall that some Weber ecus can be upgraded to 3D simply by plugging in the throttle pot. May be worth checking with Weber whether this applies to yours as this would be a simple and effective change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perksy Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 If You want to turn your current 2D into a 3D Weber Alpha, All you need to do is Buy the TPS from Webcon and plug it in to the ECU, the MAP will already be in there to use. BUT as Will says I'd be looking at a Megajolt and use your current sensors plus a TPS. This is what i'm doing at the moment, have a word with Bill about the Megajolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Green Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Basically what 3d means to your car and driving experience is as follows: Far less popping/banging from the exhaust on the overrun, as there won't be any unburnt fuel in there as the spark will be in the right place at the right time at 0% throttle Slightly better fuel economy due to the above Potentially better throttle response as the ignition map will be taking into account the throttle position therefore allowing the engine to get the spark 'just right' All of the above contributes to much smoother running engine. If I were you, junk the alpha ECU and get a MegaJoltLiteJr or similar and use the same sensors if you can. That way you've got a nice easy solution that you can use your laptop to program to your hearts content. Will is spot on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 blimey - I got something right... Perhaps wiring is not my only forte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcoopers Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Just a note of cation about the alpha units, but not sure if this applies to yours. I have an older alph unit, upgraded (of course) to 3d with the TPS addition. Yep, well worth it. However the alpha unit is pretty much an autherised agent only fiddling affair, yes I know some have worked it out, but as a general rule, agent only. But now the sting....some of the early units sold to Westfield for use with the Zetec, have locked chips that can not be re-written. This was a cost control measure, so makes me think it is not specific to zetec/westfield units. If you've an early unit, you may find that only a new chip/mother board will alow you acces to changing the map. This will only be found when you take it to an agent for mapping, and then when they send it to Webcon to see if it's chip or Motherboard. Guess what I have, £180 from Webcon to do So personally I've left it for now, and will probably swap to a different ECU in conjunction with more engine changes later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perksy Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Mark Spoke to somebody called Andy about this at Webcon, and He said that there should be a Number on the ECU, that would allow them to advise owners if the ECU was 'Locked' to even the Agents He said that this only affected a small number of the Early units Going Megajolt myself ,but Andy seemed Helpful on the phone about this.... Also if Darrell wanted to go 3D and added a TPS, This wouldn't give him a big problem until he went to the Rolling road and the Ignition Map needed Altering (it might Not...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell O'Neill Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Thanks for all the info guys I now have a little more understanding of the subject.... I appologise for asking, what to some may be a basic question, but with spending too much time here reading all the threads I felt I had to ask the direct question to have a btter understanding It seems that now I have to add a 3D system to my ever expanding upgreade list and it seems a megajolt or similar, is the way to go WHat kinda ball park figue could I expect to pay for the upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I'd budget 100 notes that should cover the cost of a tps, megajolt and a bit of wiring etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy5 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I used to work for Weber Alpha many moons ago (Left there Nov 99). Not sure what the locked chip is all about. I suppose it depends on what ECU you have, maybe the later ignition ECUs (Small plastic case instaed of the metal one) had this. We were just finishing those off in my last 6 months there. If you fit a TPS you'll need to get it setup so it's at the correct position at idle, which you'll either be able to do with a voltmeter and the correct settings given to you, or with the Alpha software and comms setup so you can see what the ECU is seeing. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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