ROVER

[dac3774]

On the news just now.  Government has announced a £6.5M bail out to keep MG Rover running for another week!

Errr, what about a bail out for all the pensioners fecked by private companies that went under prior to new legislation?  

Oh no rather waste money on MG Rover thats been destined to hit the wall since BMW sold what was left back to mgmt

p.s. sorry if any one is affected by the MG Rover fiasco, but why should there be one rule for one and one for another.

[windy]

Nissan in Sunderland and Toyota at Burnaston two massive car production plants.  

Yes but they only assemble cars, just like people assemble washing machines or toasters. MG Rover also has an engineering centre, the skilled bit that involves designing, testing & validating cars before they are put on sale to the public. With suppliers also involved in the engineering process of a car there is more Rover than you might think. Oh and Rover also has its Motorsport & Powertrain divisions.

People talk about the components in cars being of foreign origin. When I built my first Westfield I was interested to learn that Chris Smith had made a point of taking the time to ensure that as many parts as possible in the kit were of UK manufacture. Even the rear view mirror had "Made in UK" on it.

[neilwillis]

Also announced today - Ford are in trouble too!

Just to point out what i mentioned earlier about last month's sales figures - 6,000 cars sold - lets say they cost £11,000 each - Today the government announced it was paying the wages for this week - 2.1 million.   See where the maths just doesn't quite add up here?

As for the French car industry, has everyone forgotten how much state finance was poured into them in the 70's and 80's?

No wonder they're still around, when other companies are going to the wall - and that has b******* all to do with quality!

Just read this little titbit.....The latest from PWC, the company is losing £25m.....

That is per Month!!!  

Sort of puts the possibility of the tax payer bailing them out into perspective doesn't it.

[James]

I blame the consumer people these days want more and more  but want to pay less for it and as neil say's the maths dont add up, its a tough market out there and ultimetleyits the company's that have the most finnancee behind them that will survive.

I did wonder about ford when the anounced there retirment from WRC and F1 I have heard that citron are also pulling out of WRC at the end of this year manufacturers can no longer engauge in expensive exersise's such as WRC and F1 because they simply dont have the money.

Its a shame but until we ALL exept that we have to part with a resonable amount of money for the product companys will continue to go out of buissines and jobs will be exported abroad.

Im not happy with it but it seems to be the way of the world these day's!    

[felters]

I have heard that citron are also pulling out of WRC at the end of this year

Is that because their cars are lemons?    

[James]

I have heard that citron are also pulling out of WRC at the end of this year

Is that because their cars are lemons?    

I dont think so as they have done very well in the WRC

[jonlewis]

Why blame the Consumer...

If one company can offer better price/quality/features or whatever is being succesfull, the customer is going to buy it. If Rover cannot, then it has no business being in the market. Rover has had a poor image, and increasingly outdated products for many years, to turn it around will be difficult at best.

Make MGR a niche company with 1000 employees, making SV, MGTF and maybe the 75 variant, and I can see how they can survive. As a mass manufacturer with 6000 employees it will never happen for them. If government money is to be utilised, it needs to be spent on development to secure the future, not propping them up as something that is past it's sell by date.

Sorry for the strong words, especially to anyone who works in or around MGR, but unfortunatley, even if they launched the best supermini in the world tommorow, it would not sell. People do not trust the name anymore, which is sad, but the truth.

[7SE]

Missed pun alert!!!  

[neilwillis]

It's got nothing to do with the fact that traditionally, car workers were vastly overpaid then?

It's a pity about the big manufacturers not being represented in motorsport, but I dare say there will be someone along to fill the gaps.   After all, it's probably still a good value way of advertsing.

[7SE]

Make MGR a niche company with 1000 employees, making SV, MGTF

 IIRC that is what Alchemy, a venture capitalist group, proposed doing when BMW wanted to sell them Rover.  But the unions [ever a forward looking bunch] cried outrage about the loss of 5,000 jobs and the deal was scuppered.

[neilwillis]

At the time, losing all those jobs - plus all the companies that depended exclusively on Rover for their business would have been a hell of a bitter pill to swallow.

It would have meant nearer 11,000 job losses.

If nothing else, Phoenix did buy some time for the suppliers to diversify - and lessen the impact.

FWIW, I don't think the unions have looked bad at any stage during the recent crisis - unless of course you blame them for the falling sales, lack of investment, and slow down in car manufacturing round the world.

It's very easy to point fingers, blaming the government, the unions, et al, but what does that prove?

And as for the idea of splitting off MG to go it alone, I can only think of a quote from Rodney Marsh.....

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig!

[Coxy]

Unfortunatley, it is the way of the world.  I still find it hard to believe that manufacturers recoup the billions it costs to develop new cars.

In recent years we have had the amalgamation of many car companies under group umberellas. (Saab, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover etc etc etc ), which seems to point to a struggling industry in general.

It is quite true, as consumers we want the best product for the cheapest price, and I dont think that is unreasonable.  As in many other industries a business can either compete or it cannot, Rover obviously cannot. Whilst it is awful news for the employees and associated companies and their employees, I do not see why the Govenrnment should bail Rover out, how, many other privately owned organisations get that kind of help?

[James]

Why blame the Consumer...

I blame the consumer because they/ we do want to pay the cheapest possible price for a product this makes manufacturing in this country bl**** imposible with our miniumum wages unions rules regulations and basicly all the beuracratic red tape that surounds this country, I dont feel that Rover has done the best thing by having such poor build and reliabity but I know from my own experince that trying to sell a quality product manufactured here in blighty at a reasonable price is down right bl**** imposible everyone always wants it cheaper which yes you can get if its been manufactured abroad but then the qulaity drops(and I am not just talking about cars herebut look at the city Rover) I think Rover should have set there sights higher but development isnt always the answer as the time frame for that investment to pay dividends isnt always achivable especially if you need the financial boost short term.

That said if rover had paid more attention to detail maybe they wouldent be in this position maybe they would who knows but what I do know is trying to sell a product in this country is getting harder year after year after year

[jonlewis]

BMW, who are currently very succesfull, are in Germany, a country with equally large amounts of red tape. They chose, many years ago to move upmarket. I dont think anyone would say they were cheap, but they sold more of them than Ford did the Mondeo last year. Price is not the only factor. Perception is what counts and people percieve a BMW/Merc/Honda to be better than Rover... regardless of the truth.

The media also has a big, and usually negative part to play. Just look at how the Jeremy Clarkson comments detroyed the Vectra. In Rover's case, they simply questioned the viability of the company on such a regular basis that it became a self fullfiling prophecy. Dropping sales = Less Investment =  Older Range = Dropping Sales.

[Richgm]

Despite my earlier posts I've got to say that the more I look at this the more I think the current management have alot to answer for.

They don't own the Rover brand name. It's leased off BMW.

They have also in their wisdom sold Longbridge and they lease it back.

As well as this it looks like the rights to the 75 and 25 plus the rights to the K series engine have already been sold to Shanghai Automotive.

All in all It doesn't look like the company have a whole lot of assets to bargain with. The only thing they do seem to have left is the MG name. Enough to pay some of the creditors and the bill from Price Waterhouse.