ROVER

[stillracin]

I still blame it on BMW. The fact that the broke the company up. Sold Landrover (After they got the 4X4 technology off them for the X5) kept the new mini as they had a good idea it would make money. and just left a handful of poor models and not much hope of being able to develop anything better.

To be fair, the BMW deal was for the new consortium to keep all of their land assets (worth a considerable amount), have a loan of 400M which they subsequently wrote off and do not make anyone redundant. They also taught Rover how to build a motor car (Rover 75).  Rover should have used the loan, thier land assets etc to invest and did not.  This  was not the fault of BMW, who I believe cut them the best deal that any car manufcturer woudl have done at the time.

[neilwillis]

My kid brother works for Rover Group, and he's had his head in the sand for years.   The attitude seems to be that no one would allow such a monster to die.   Sadly, I think it's inevitable.

Nobody should kid themselves here, they're a dinosaur company that has failed for as many years as I can remember, lurching from one crisis to another.   They have had a few bright moments, but most of the cars coming out of the factory gates are out dated, and suffer from the same old problems - the image sucks.

The reality was that Phoenix have bought the components suppliers enough time to diversify, and lessen the impact of a total collapse.   If they'd gone under when BMW dropped them, there would have been real implications for the whole of the West Midlands.   Now, although it'll hurt loads of families, at least there has been time to prepare for what's about to happen.  

If the company is propped up again it'll just be another stay of execution.   They have to find a huge investor, and look to introducing new models, or they have no future at all.   Even the Chinese deal was just about buying expertise, and the tooling for them to build an industry on, and the UK end was inevitably going to go under sooner rather than later - how could Rover compete with the Chinese as far as labour costs go for a start?

How anyone can lay the blame at the government's door I cannot for the life of me understand.   If anything, I'd say the company's gone under at the time any government would least want, and if they could delay that, you can bet your sweet ass they would have done.

If a company is to survive, it has to be profitable, and Rover haven't turned in a real profit for decades.

It's a sad day when there ceases to be a major car manufacturer in the city that was built on cars, but this hasn't exactly come as a surprise to anyone here.

[Tomcat]

Sad but true - although Pheonix IMO have done alot with the image with the MG branding - trouble is as you say they hadn't got the investment to follow it up with a new range of cars at the right time!

[Richgm]

Big successful companies are ruthless and only deal with how much they can make. At the end of the day if one part of a company is not making money I cant blame BMW for selling it off. They are not a charity after all.

The point I'm trying to make (IMHO) is, if Landrover and the new mini were still part of the Rover group then there would still be profitable parts of the company. That would make it more attractive to buyers and have helped fund development of new models. I still feel that BMW only purchased Rover to get the 4X4 technology once they had that then there was no point in keeping it.

Still it's too late to worry about that now. I'm off to work in a moment. Maybe I'll find out what the fall out for us is going to be.  

[Tomcat]

Good Luck Rich!!

Keep us posted!!

[neilwillis]

I think if the Mini and Landrover were still part of the group, there would have been no inward investment to them either and they'd all have been dragged down, or as did happen, the profitable bits would have eventually been farmed out, and the rest left to founder.

There is a 40 million lifelife being thrown to companies like yours Richard, I sincerely hope the fallout isn't too painful for the rest of the manufacturing base in this country.

[Nick A]

Phoenix Group Board Can't Loose though can they  

They Own the Site, and What's that Worth  

though they sold that off about 3 years ago, think stan clark (st modwins) brought it and rover leased it back off him so fairly sure they don't even have this  

[Nick A]

thought i was right read this  

[Mark Stanton]

Tis always sad to hear of folks losing jobs        Emotion of that aside isn't it about time they let Rover die

No doubt someone will see the profitable areas such as Landrover and MG brands and continue their success

But be honest a Rover 45 and 75 etc - there's a lot of folks drive em in the Midlands simply because they can get a huge discount from the family deals etc and perhaps the Rover 75 is quite a nice car ........................... but it could be so much better build quality and engine  

Get a mortgage of 90K or more from the West Brom Building Soc and you get a Rover free         ........... No thanks    

and the Rover site is prime for re-development        

[perksy]

Like this Comment:

"In short, millions of pounds worth of assets have already flown the nest."

Dr Tom Donnelly of Coventry Business School added: "The interesting thing will be - and this is where accountants are going to have a lot of fun - is where's it all gone?"

Feel Sorry for the Workers though  

Even if a Deal can still be done with the Chinese, it Don't look too Good in the Future  

[windy]

Yes this is sad news. Yet another British company wound down by a foreign company (BMW) & then stripped of its profitable products before being sold off to struggle on for a few more years. Reliant / TVR / Rolls Royce / Bentley / Lotus have all suffered the same fate & now all the money is going abroad.

Ask yourself why is it that the British government has adopted such a negative attitide & general apathy to not supporting our own manufacturing industry in general & you'll realise why our country is slowly going down the pan. If they had loaned MG Rover enough money from the start to enable them to develop new cars properly then they wouldn't have got into this sorry mess. they would also not have had to approach SAIC for help. Look at what the French government has done for PSA (peugeot / citroen) & where they've come in the last 10 years.

People don't seem to realise that its not just 6,000 assembly plant jobs at risk, its the engineering & suppliers that also have to suffer. This amounts to a total of £26,000+ people all of whom are taxpayers. The knock on from this will affect me too.

[Blatman]

Ask yourself why is it that the British government has adopted such a negative attitide & general apathy to not supporting our own manufacturing industry in general & you'll realise why our country is slowly going down the pan.

Millitant unions ruined it, be under no illusion.

If they had loaned MG Rover enough money from the start to enable them to develop new cars properly then they wouldn't have got into this sorry mess. they would also not have had to approach SAIC for help. Look at what the French government has done for PSA (peugeot / citroen) & where they've come in the last 10 years.

The Government really can't lend them any money, especially not a Labour government. How would you feel if the government lent, oh I don't know, say Associated Newspapers 100 million quid of *our* money to stay afloat? There'd be uproar. The trouble with the car industry, and Rover/BL or whatever you want to call it, is that they have come to expect it.

However, I suspect that the Phoenix Group may well have some hard questions to answer about where the money has gone, so it's difficult to know if one group of people is to blame, or if it's a case of *everyone* (apathetic workers to inneffective management) playing a part. I suspect they have all played a part, but I also suspect that it's fate was sealed with Red Robbo back in the 70's...

[jonlewis]

I am sorry, but I do not see where the government comes into this.

Business is business, if you make a profit, things look good. If you make a loss, things are bad.

Although I have every sympathy with the workers, both within Rover and the outside contractors, it is impossible for the government to bail out every company that gets into trouble. It is sad to see any company failing whether they have 10 or 10000 workers. I myself have been made redundant from a company which went under, at no point did I feel that a government handout should be made.

Rover has been the recipient of government monies before (I know much of the this seems to have ended up in BMW coffers), but central funds are not the answer.

Hoprefully, a rescue package will come from somewhere, but if it does, some reality needs to be at the forefront.

Rover needs to build better cars which people want to buy. They are not, and never will be again, big enough to be considered a mass manufacturer. They should concentrate on niche, but affordable cars, such as the MGTF.  They cannot compete in the mass market anymore. The 25/45 are ancient, while the 75 is a cracking car, if poorly built. The City Rover was the biggest mistake the company could have made.

Even the Unions would prefer 1000 workers in a profitable, productive environment, than 6000 waiting for redundancy.

[Megablade Paul]

I am sorry, but I do not see where the government comes into this.

Business is business, if you make a profit, things look good. If you make a loss, things are bad.

Sorry Jon, I dont think it's quite that simple, although I agree with your sentiment the government does come into it if only on a purely financial basis. All those people stop paying income tax and NI and then require unemployment benefits. I don't know what the maths are but it may be more cost-effective to keep it going until it can be put on a stronger footing - IMHO, tis sad though for a once icon of british industry and all the families it will have an impact on

[Richgm]

Well been to work today. Lots of stuff going on. Heard some fact, some rumor. Some things I'm supposed to know and some things I'm not   .

Upshot is It's not going to have any short term affect on me (except maybe overtime). Long term I should be OK but there are others in the company who may be less fortunate.

Time will tell and there's sod all I can do about it so I'm not worrying about it.