Mike Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 im looking at courses to do when i finish uni. i quite fancy the Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE). But how usefull is it, and how easy is it to get a job at the end of completing it? Only thing im quite concerned about it sticking with all things microsoft. Other than causing a big headache all the time, it will also mean im not trained to use other companies programs / servers etc. Once you know one inside out is it easy enough to pick up on a different make? Would i be better off doing a course such as the A+ one? Because i aint worked in computers, what are the main areas were there are plenty of jobs? cheers for any help mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 after looking further into it a course like THIS ONE might be better. MCSA with a+ and networking + electives. then i could move onto the MCSE if i wanted? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilb Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Being certified is all well and good but most employeers will look for experience. The a+ courses are aimed more at people that have little or no experience where as the MCSE will expect you to know quite a bit, have a look at the pre-req's before signing up for the course, get hold of the server software, you can get eval versions from microsoft for about £10, and build yourself a server to learn on The thing to remember with computers is that what you learn this year will be no good in a couple of years time. HTH Neil - CNE (novell 4 and 5), MCSE (NT4), CCA (Citrix 1.8 and XP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich101 Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Neil's right, the + courses are basically foundation courses, if you get a couple of books and a couple of servers to play around with you'd soon be able to get yourself upto that level. Theres also the cost for getting yourself through certification. Might be best aiming low to start off with and get in with a company who will pay for it all. That's what I'm doing, I just look at it as another couple of years learning, but with experience! Rich Hopefully soon to be CCNA! edited to say - I think I read somewhere that the MSCE isn't as valuable as it used to be...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-rad Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I am currently working towards MCSA and should be there just after christmas but if I could start over I would want to go the Cisco route. Twas a nice feeling when i got my first MCP though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilb Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Some of the CBT (computer based training) is fairly good, if you are planning to go for a MCSE course, or any course for that matter, avoid the boot camp still "pass in a weekend" type things - they may get to thru the exams but will give you next to no knowledge of the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Mike, some general rambling thoughts… The MCSE has been around quite a few years now and has evolved accordingly. The NT4 MCSE was around for the longest and due to the lack of development on it the questions became well known on the Internet and consequently many people have it. The Windows 2000 exams brought in a much more complex question regime and naturally these also become a target for brain dumpsites and help people through. The newest lot of exams, the MCSE 2003 are reasonably new so to pass it you have to know a fair bit. As an example I took the 7 NT4 MCSE exams as it neared the end of its life cycle in 7 weeks with one exam a week, I do not remember it being taxing. There has been a steady flood of people fresh out of university with a computer related degree and an MCSE to boot. What they are missing is direct experience and hence the term ‘Paper MCSE’. They are also reducing the overall wages of the more senior IT pro’s but that’s another rant for another day… When interviewing I’m more keen on people that have gained their MCSE during their work period rather than people that have attended a boot camp or just studied solid for a few weeks/months to get it. Being able to learn while applying your knowledge on a day-to-day basis is useful. You’re right on the limitations of just being a Microsoft based person but you need to factor in now what sort of stuff floats your boat – Unix, programming, networking etc. A couple of routes you can take that may accelerate you past your student competition: Look to get a job with a large corporate with a view of being they’re quite a few years (3-4). Once you’re in, as often as you can enquire about moving around the IT sections getting exposure to the different technologies. The big corps have the advantage of paying for your training and already having the many technology infrastructures that you can use and gain experience on. After a few years of this your CV will be quite strong. Another option (and one I went for) is joining a smaller company that has quite a few outsourcing agreements with smaller to medium size companies. The advantage being they can be a bit of a shambles when it comes to having and retaining the right people and if you play it right you can blag your way in to installing and supporting all sorts of technologies that you would never worked with in a corporate. As most IT is relatively straight forward when you know what you want it to do and the language it needs to do it you should move on quite quickly. In the corporate scenario they would never allow you to install some Cisco gear, set-up an exchange server and maybe spec a few Unix boxes based on you saying ‘yes I have been messing around with that stuff for ages now’ ;-) After a while with this sort of company you can leave to go contracting or move to a more steady role. If I were in your shoes and wanted to eke a long term career path out of IT (is there such a thing?) I would be focussing on: Full MS Infrastructure products (definitely with WMI/VBS programming there’s a gap at the mo) Citrix Linux Cisco if you fancy that sort of stuff, not my cup of tea personally. You might have to update me but if the same lack of Unix training is still going on at universities I’d be tempted to self study that as well. Programming is also a useful skill especially if you can stay awake long enough to learn Perl. If not even the .net stuff is useful especially when you have to deal with application support people who accuse you of your server being wrong at which point you ask them to send their code through…cause a few raised eyebrows! This also goes hand in hand with general SQL skills. Also have a think about what sort of career you fancy. Normally you need a couple of years experience before starting contracting (one if you are creative with a CV) where there is more money or you can go for a more stable corporate IT level and grow your career more progressively. /general rambling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lins Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 The thing to remember with computers is that what you learn this year will be no good in a couple of years time. That's not strictly true - OS's like Unix will be around for a very long time - it's been around over 30 years so far - linux is based very heavily on Unix that's where most of my skill set is. Having said that I can hold my own on windows too if I need to - but for the stuff I do (mainly things that run 24 x 7) I wouldn't touch Windows with a barge pole. Things do change tho - the Novell and VMS skills I used to have are all but useless now - I guess what employers are looking for is the ability to transfer knowlege from one sector to another - for example - most of my work is a combination of C++ and Java - they are very similar but once you know OO programming you can pick up the others fairly easily. Also factor in things like MSCE run out when the OS becomes obsolete ! Lins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lins Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 You might have to update me but if the same lack of Unix training is still going on at universities I’d be tempted to self study that as well. Some are better than others - we get year out students where I am - the year before last he was spot on. Last year on arrival we had the quote "Unix - why are you using something that's 30 years old and no-one else uses". We did put him right. Mind you we did get some really good quotes from him - my personal favourite was bemoaning the lack of a compile button on his editor ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 cheers all for the help. so top and bottom of this thread is, find a company to put you through the required courses. summet i guess will be quite hard to find, and i better start looking now. Any suggestions on best places to look for jobs? and is it worth becoming a member of bcs? out of general interest how much does it cost to complete a certification such as the microsoft one? it says it around £1000 to do the course but then you have to pay for exams? cheers mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-rad Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I worked for a college for free for six months, then bit by bit they gave me work until i ended up full time. Working in a college has given me access to many different aspects of IT. Microsoft exams are about 80 quid each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesty Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 exams used to be 70+vat each when I was doing them. www.jobserve.com is the typical starting place when applying for jobs but bear in mind you will be one of quite a few when applying. For each one send your cv through first then a couple of hours later call the agent and have a chat with him. If you cant answer a question in an IT interview always bark on about how resource you are. Technet, MSDN, and my favourite www.google.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel_Landy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I tend to agree with Westy.... In general, I've found the Microsoft Certified bits to be not woth the paper they're printed on these days. There's too many guys coming straight out of Uni and getting their Microsoft qualifications while they're in the academic frame of mind. Anyone making a big thing of MCSE on their CV really makes me think twice about hiring them. Also... When on the look out for contract work myself, I tend to avoid the jobs where they make a big thing of having to be MS qualified. What it usually means is that they know they need someone but haven't been able to work out the job spec or what they're going to be doing yet! The other one that makes me laugh is when they put on the spec for a contractor "graduate"... They're sort of missing the point of why they're hiring in a contractor. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlewis Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 In my opinion, some of the more niche training and qualifications would be more use.... lots of MCSE's around. Look at Storage (EMC, IBM), Security, VMWare, et al. Lots more pent up demand for all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enterpryse Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 1011001100100000100100010001001001001000100100 AF DE FC 11 FF FF B3 D7 35 EF C5 9A 7B 6C 3A 22 3E ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.