I have a dream.

[Blatman]

Good shout Ian

I'd forgotten about Mikes car...

As for the suspension ruling..

the ruling I mentioned above (nothing written, it was an informal request for rules clarification - it occurred at Croft in 2002 with regard to the SBD front suspension modifications on Mark S's car)

So how do we apply that when Mr A N Other makes an objection, and the scruters on the day have no knowledge of this ruling, and we are unable to produce any documentation to the scruter to prove it?

I'm NOT having a go, I just want to know how these things work as I have no experience in them. From the adjudication stuff I've read in the MSA quarterly mag, they appear to be keen on documentary evidence when making judgements on rulings. If this was in a court (and the MSA appear to run like a court), such evidence (unsupported verbal evidence, from a 3rd party) would be disallowed as hearsay unless the records or evidence from the MSA official concerned can be presented, heard, and cross examined. So what's the process to defend against an objection to moved pick ups?

[Arm]

If Mark were to confirm it ?

[guy g]

Not sure that Mark knows actually - it happened behind the scenes.

[guy g]

I would have a couple of beers and go to bed Ash.

For Blatman: The process to defend against an objection is irrelevant until an "official" protest has been made. As far as I can remember this has to be done at a meeting in writing to the Clerk of the Course, and requires the payment of a fee which is only returned if the protest is upheld - the BB tells you all about how to make a protest.

This is why one tends to ask for a clarification of the regulations (from someone who is responsible for the relevant championship eligibility matters for instance) rather than make an "official" protest - that and it the fact that it can be very embarassing if it all goes wrong!!

[ian crocker]

Often thought about making a short stroke XE. At 1700 CC, seriously oversquare, with the same head potential and block stiffness of the 2L it might be capable of similar figures and good reliability ?

I don't see why not.  After all, most of the power potential is in the head.  Whether you could spin the bottom end fast enough is another matter  

[smithy]

this is all getting a bit petty i think, whether pickup points have been moved via bolted links or welded brackets, it all has the same effect -improvement. we all try to go faster thats the nature of the sport. some push the envelope more than others, and nobody can be right or wrong when the bb can be so easily mis-read.

for the record Guy i won class 2b in the midland last year, and there were no complaints, John palmer won overall, ditto

[windy]

Proof is possibly that many of the WSCC SS drivers also compete, and do well, in the Midland Championship and other nationals wiithout any car amendments (except for possibly Ash's diffuser issue)

But it's also very difficult to do both championships  Take Shelsley where any SS road car registered competitor would have gone in the SS class. If you'd been in the Midland on the day as well then you would have probably gone into the 2a or 2b MSA class. Introduce some sharp showers of rain into the equation then it's a lottery for the event, some people getting dry runs & good times, others getting wet times & poor ones. Where do you stand then for legality of scoring points? One would assume that you could only score Midland points if you were in the MSA defined class, & SS points if you were in the SS grouped class, especially if the rain had given you an unfair advantage? Also what happens if someone was running an 1800cc car in both championships?          

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Well, 15 pages of discussion, and all very interesting too. But no of it tells Mick if he can use a sequential gearbox in class 2B if the factory start selling cars with them fitted  

John

[Bananaman]

Well, 15 pages of discussion, and all very interesting too. But no of it tells Mick if he can use a sequential gearbox in class 2B if the factory start selling cars with them fitted  

John

John

I think the answer to that question is NO (untill Westfield decide to build them as standard).... & then ????????

It would semm that the major issue is the modified front suspention pick up points, is it possible to get a deifnate ruling on this issue.          

[Arm]

Andy

If you want a definitive answer then as has been said you must make a formal request to the MSA.

Ash

[Bananaman]

Andy

If you want a definitive answer then as has been said you must make a formal request to the MSA.

Ash

To be quite honest Ash, I couldn't give a #### either way, but the issue seems like it needs clearing up.      

[Guest]

Well, 15 pages of discussion, and all very interesting too. But no of it tells Mick if he can use a sequential gearbox in class 2B if the factory start selling cars with them fitted  

John

Bring it on.

Don't care who modifies what next year - if you have the money, go for it - your choice.

Just make sure you have a working wiper motor.

P.S.  Absolutely agree with the comments about ASH - he is also a mate - great driver who has put the time and effort into developing his car.  The (so called) "mods" that have been discussed here would not altered this mans storming performance this year.  I know Tim P has won the championship - but "man of the match" has to go to ASH.  He also has a working wiper motor.

[Bananaman]

He also has a working wiper motor.

I've got one too, it's in the celler.........

[guy g]

The obvious way to get a definitive answer if people are not happy already with the fact that both the Sprint Leaders Championship (an MSA official by the way) and the Midland have deemed these mods to be OK, is for someone to officially protest one or more of the cars that have modified suspension.

This will mean putting your money down.

Three Sisters would seem like the ideal place.

[RICHARD+PHILIP]

looking at the times we were regulary up to 2/3rd in the 2L class this year (excluding the long circuits of course) so if you put a small supercharger/turbo on a 1.6 you would probably do very well.

SBD told me when I was originally building the engine that you couldn't take a vx to 1700 by boring as it is already a bored out 1400