Cateringvans, really worth the extra?

[Blatman]

Now put them on soft slicks and I reckon you begin to see the difference.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm unaware of a Westfield that can beat the slick-shod performances of Robert Kenrick (BlackBird), Dave Kimberley (2.0Vx) and Brodie Branch (Hyabusa) when achieving times for example at Curborough in the 54/55 sec. region and Loton in the 52/53 sec. region. The slicks really do test the suspension and chassis and I believe highlight an important difference between the two cars.

I'd put Adrian Clinton Watkins and Mark Smith and Tom Green up against your three guys.

Sadly, the results for this years Loton Park event aren't on the web site yet, and our last double lapper at Curborough was in '03. If I can find the times though, I'll put 'em up so we can compare, although obviously until we can get the same driver in the same cars on the same day to do the runs, we'll never know for sure...

I'll be at Wiscombe in a traditional class 2B car this Saturday, along with a load of your sprint championship guys. Which of youre classes is the 2B equivalent? Just wanna know who to look for on the timesheet If I do well, I may come back to this thread and prod a finger, virtually speaking... Of course, if I perform miserably, I'll be asking the Webmaster to delete this thread immediately

I DO have a chin Blatman (two in fact)

It's always nice to get at least one bite

[KenE]

Hi Blatman

Our classes 2 and 4 are the 2b equivalent though class 2 may include some 1400 engines and they are generally lowered powered since they have to run standard plenum chambers.

So let's see, who's in class 4 at Wiscombe...........oh yes, I am!!  Other 2b equivalents to watch out for are John (Andy) Griffiths (67) though running a Hayabusa he's strictly speaking in 2a I think, though he tends to get 2b times

Also Mark Durrant, Andrew Nicholls and Mike Sankey should put up respectable class 2b sort of times though they're in our class 2 (hope you're following).

The man who will get the FTD amongst the Sevens is Brodie Branch though Dave Jackson shouldn't be far behind (slicks/list 1b respectively).

I was about to say yours seem to be all 2 litres then I realised I was looking at the year of manufacture column

Anyway, if it comes to a brawl I see there's twice as many Caterham owners as Westfield owners there  

Ken

[Blatman]

Yeah but we're proper 'ard, not like you toffs...

If ACW is at Wiscombe, I reckon he'll be pushing for that FTD. He's had quite a few this year...

BTW, as I understood it, "traditional" 2B cars run screens and 1A tyres, and have engines >1700cc. Your car seems to have an aero screen, so no point in comparisons. So who's gonna be there with a C******m on 1A tyres, running a windscreen?

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

Fight, Fight, Fight, behind the toilets after school  

of course thats if you went to school when the toilets were outside and had no roof  

Personally I think all this 'my cars faster than yours/better value than yours' is all a load of sh*te  

But i do like a good wind-up  

Most of us on here and Blatchat dare to drive something a bit different    so lets be friends  

[CateringVan]

Even if Caterhams are faster does it make them better value ? I may have missed something but I thought the debate was about are they worth the extra, not are they faster ?

Also, has anyone done a direct price comparison netween two similar models, bought as complete kits from the manufacturer. I'm talkig about the middle of the range models here rather than the tuned K-series such as the R400/500 because the engine is such a big part of the cost for those (and not worth it IMHO when a duratec is so much better value)

Personally I bought a Caterham because I've always liked them, and even a tatty Caterham seems to have an air of quality about it whereas I've seen some tatty westfields (and others) that look just awful. I'm not trying to 'have a go' , its just my own opinion about some of the cars I have seen, and some of the good Westies have been very good indeed. I guess what I'm trying to say is that IMHO there is a more consistent quality to Caterhams than there is to Westfields and this may be reflected in the prices

Does this make them worth more ? I dunno. I suspect they cost more to make although I'm willing to be proved wrong - there are some good photos of the chassis manufacturing "here which may (or not) be of some use

As Paul says "lets be friends   ". I'd rather have a tatty Westfield than a good Robin Hood

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

I'd rather have a tatty Westfield than a good Robin Hood

Does'nt the renowned Dave Andrews drive a Robin Hood  

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

I've just had a look at the link to Angus and Tessa's site and the Arch workshop, I particularly liked the reference to all the G Cramps, in Fact I'm going home soon and I'm going to line up all my cramps and give them a stroke  

I hope they were all good quality Record cramps and not some cheap imitations  

[Bananaman]

Morning  

I often pop over from Blatchat to see what's happening with our sevenesque brethren and I couldn't resist registering just to bung in my thoughts on this one.

I was reading Blatman's comments with interest last night, and some of those about Caterham vs Westfield on trackdays, and thinking about car comparisons using the extremes of sprinting/hillclimbing as an example.

I agree that Ashley Mason is doing one hell of a good job of taking 2b class records in his exceedingly tidy, well sorted and reputedly high powered Vx engined Westie.  Though I'd point out that this is achieved on list 1a standard road tyres that tend to slip and slide before really exercising the suspension and chassis so it doesn't really provide a good comparison between cars.

Now put them on soft slicks and I reckon you begin to see the difference.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm unaware of a Westfield that can beat the slick-shod performances of Robert Kenrick (BlackBird), Dave Kimberley (2.0Vx) and Brodie Branch (Hyabusa) when achieving times for example at  Curborough in the 54/55 sec. region and Loton in the 52/53 sec. region. The slicks really do test the suspension and chassis and I believe highlight an important difference between the two cars.

Having said that, it still doesn't justify the price difference for many who use them as road cars with the occasional trackday thrown in - though I'd like to think the difference in chassis and suspension performance might be noticeable and confidence inspiring on a B road late at night!  

For me, I lusted after a Seven after The Prisoner and since I first watched them at Loton Park in the mid-seventies and nothing coming along in the meantime was going to divert me from getting into debt to eventually buy my dream car.

By the way - just thinking back to some of the other comments in this thread, I always wave to ANY Seven-inspired car, I DO have a chin Blatman (two in fact) and appreciate what Westfield have done on the development front in recent years.  However I prefer my Superlight R and some other fool(?) will also pay silly money for it when I decide to move on  

Cheers

Ken

It would seem that were looking at 56/57 for 2lapper a Curborough.........

Caterham results page

That Brodey Branch looks like he can drive......

WSCC results page

However were comparing Eggs with Tomatoes here as ACW's car's VX powered & BB's is Hyabusa.

Who's the fastest VX powered Cateham on Slicks

[Mat Jackson]

Surely it is all a matter of taste.  If you want a Westfield buy one, if you want a Caterham buy one of those.....

Yes Caterhams are more expensive, but Westfields are also more expensive than a lot of other sevens.

So if we say CVs are a rip off because of price, the same could be said about a Westfield, as yuo can build an MK much cheaper.

If you want speed per pound, then a well built MK would surely win hands down.....................

[KenE]

It would seem that were looking at 56/57 for 2lapper a Curborough.........

Caterham results page

Bananaman - you're looking at the 2003 results!  

Check out Brodie's time http://www.lotus7club.co.uk/ck/curb2%202004.htm

54.74 by the way

[KenE]

Bananaman again - Dave Kimberley below is probably in charge of the fastest sprinting/hillclimbing Vx powered Caterham

[oldman]

And the demasterbate go's on

[chappers]

I drive an 1800 zetec westfield GTZ with jenvey throttle bodies (155bhp) which gives me pretty much identical performance to my twin brother's 1800 k-series 6 speed Caterham running standard supersport injection (140bhp).

If you compare the two:

                  Caterham   Westifled

car               £18495      £16995 (original price new)

1.8 engine     £1000        standard

paint             £1100       N/A gelcoat

leather          £250         £395

LSD              £750         £925-1460

AP 4-pots      £675         £729

RAC rollbar     £150         £230

6-speed        £1650        N/A

                  £24070      £19269

Therefore from new the Caterham is about 15-20% dearer for the same performance, including the 6 speed upgrade which I included as I think the Caterham would be relatively slower without it compared to the Westy. If you talk about nearly new second hand cars then the Westy is significantly cheaper and so offsets the money you would get back from better resale of a Caterham.

I love driving both, although the Caterham is a bit cramped especially in the pedal box area, while the Westfield is more roomy. I didn't like the SV as everything seems a bit bigger, including the seats so you don't get the involving hugging feeling. In straight from the factory set up my Westfield corners noticably faster than the Caterham which understeers, whereas the Caterham brakes better, maybe due to its stickier tyres since we both have AP 4pots.

Basically I'd be happy owning either car, or a MK etc. if I couldn't afford one of these - its the seven/kitcar camaraderie I enjoy. If you want to pay a 15 percent premium for "heritage"/better resale value (whatever you class it as)then go ahead, but most of all just go and get yourself one you can afford and enjoy the experience with other similarly minded nutters.......people .

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

but most of all just go and get yourself one you can afford and enjoy the experience with other similarly mined nutters.......people .

Sensible man  

[Coxy]

Hey, we all like sevens be they Westies, Caterhams, MK's Tigers ......... personally I love mine and wouldn't swap it for anything (perhaps upgrade it to death though) Live and let live I say, lets bury the hatchet (preferably in a Robin Hood - sorry did I type that???        )