mynickers Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 I had a customer visit me last week at work. Turned out he had built a couple of Caterhams in his past, and he now does single seater track racing. When I said I sprinted a Westfield he made the 'cross sign' with his fingers in front of his chest at me! bl**** cheek! What do they know It's that kind of attitude, and that of what KerryS speaks off that makes me want one even less. I despise that kind of pathetic childish behaviour, it’s like some kind of superiority complex and snootiness certain 'groups' have, normally gay people that work in fashion . I am sure that's not representitive of all CV owners mind. But life is far too short to suffer fools and foolish behaviour, maybe that is a little harsh but I can see no reason not to be warn, welcoming and friendly to people with a shared interest. I am very open minded about cars, I try not to be prejudice, sure this will be more difficult when I 'actually' own one. The only cars I am snooty too are the Nova botch-up brigade that stalk traffic lights and car parks.. Been checking out the Dax website (thanks Steve:)) they look like a groovy little company...700bhp per tonne scary! Quote
starter Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 IIRC the Westfield Race Series guys ( Keith Scarfe et al) were at Croix the same time as us( Caterham Graduates) and were putting in faster lap times. A combination of more power and grippier tyres but comparable money so £ for £ you probably get a better deal with a Westfield. Quote
oldman Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Always wanted a Caterham myself till I bought my canoe a couple of years ago Quote
Toby Mack Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 I despise that kind of pathetic childish behaviour The only cars I am snooty too are the Nova botch-up brigade hmm.... each to his own surely surely the point about cateringvans is you can go into a showroom. slap 20k on the table and walk away with a very nice car without really having to understand what you are buying but safe in the knowledge that most of your mates are going to think you have a very nice car! If you go for a caterham graduate or whatever you can be racing the next day without months of agonising over whether you have the right go faster widget fitted this season...... I know you can get a pretty nice factory westfield but I am tempted to suggest it won't be such a polished product factory fresh. Some people have so much money to burn they would rather play it safe. Nothing wrong with that except the jelousy it causes! fwiw I have visited a caterham showroom and was treated politely but with little interest. Salesman obviously twigged straight away I wasn't buying. No worse than my treatment in a number of lotus showrooms and I used to own a lotus! But you have to live with the car, not the salesman and I was actually pretty impressed with the build quality of the final product. Lots of nice touches with made it look more professional than the average westfield. I have also met a couple of caterham owners. One was a true enthusiast and the other was a rich snob. there again I have had the same experience with lotus owners, scooby owners, porsche owners etc etc. It takes all sorts. On the track, who cares? Buy stock hatch for £2k and spend the rest of driver training if you want to be competative!!! Quote
Mark Stanton Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 caterham graduate or whatever you can be racing the next day without months of agonising over whether you have the right go faster widget fitted this season...... If only you knew ....................... I don't wanna sound patronising in any way - and what you have said should be true ........................ but very sadly it isn't Yes I know the series is only open to those that have never held an MSA race licence previously ........... but very sadly it doesn't work like that ............. folks are throwing some very serious money at it to try and be competitive ................. anyone would think some drivers have professional team prep back-up You really gotta hang out around the paddocks and see some of em ....................... and yes there are still some very keen enthusiasts who are entering for the craic and enjoyment without spending mush more than £30k on a season Quote
starter Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Mark, I think you are getting mixed up between the Academy ( novice drivers, new car, some people spending a lot on testing etc but not the amount you are indicating) and the Caterham Graduates which is open to new or experienced drivers alike and with different classes. Just over 2 years ago I bought a Caterham for around £9k and started racing within a few weeks. Never done track days before, not a great driver but within a year was competitive. Whilst no motorsport is cheap- I reckon it must cost me £5k for a full season of racing you don't need to spend a fortune. If you read my earlier post ( or any of my postings) you will know I have no axe to grind but there are some myths about just how much people spend. Quote
Mark Stanton Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Yep apoolooogies I confoosed grads with adacamy easily done they all look the same to me But some of those guys really are spensding some serious bucks and for what Seems odd the way this discussion never seems to be resolved - doubt it ever will (with a bit of luck ) One thing that can be resolved though is the competition pedigree of RH's Taxiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Quote
felters Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 surely the point about cateringvans is you can go into a showroom. slap 20k on the table and walk away with a very nice car without really having to understand what you are buying but safe in the knowledge that most of your mates are going to think you have a very nice car! Acksherley... I think if you go and buy a similiarly specced factory built Westy then you'll probably spend much the same money. One of the key differences is that I believe a much higher proportion of Westfields are home built - inevitably lowering the cost and - it has to be said - introducing the dubious option of variable build quality. My belief is that if you're buying used then a Westfield will be better value - so long as you inspect it carefully - because the odds are it's home built. On a personal level I also enjoy the chance to go and fiddle around with it in the self delusion that I'm improving the car. While I'm at it let's stop taking the p155 out of RHs. It's too soft a target to be any real fun Quote
Martin Keene Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 Yeah you could - not a good spec one though. I costed one up - theres no point having an Ultima with a weedy engine, less than top spec brakes, suspension etc and as soon as you start doing that, you get close to 40k It can be done, but you have to do more work than most people who build such a thing would want to do. A bloke living in the same village as my parents has just built a Can Am for £35k (ish). It is not low spec, has the AP Racing 4 pots all round and has 420bhp. But to do it for that price he had to build the engine himself, he found a short block on the 'net, rebuilt it with forged pistons (£500 from the states! ) and then imported a kit of parts guarenteed to produce 420bhp, which included the heads, cam, valve train, inlet maifold and carb. A talented and shrewed person can do it, but it is still a sh!te load of money and think of the westie you could build for that... Quote
Blatman Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 Where were you last week Martin? I had this same discussion with BobM (former Westfield owner/builder), who's built an Ultima (GT), who said this was nigh on impossible, and I was forced to concede. b******* Not that it bugged me at all... Oh, and back on topic... I know you can get a pretty nice factory westfield but I am tempted to suggest it won't be such a polished product factory fresh. I strongly disagree with that. I've seen *plenty* of factory built cars, and they have always been of first class quality in every respect, and they're still better value than a C******m. Besides which, C******m are short on choice right now. Their tie up with MG means thay can offer but a single engine (the K series) whilst Westfield support a number of options including the Duratec, which is fast becoming the engine to have. This can only be a good thing for the factory and the product IMHO. Felters has also hit the nail on the head with the factory/home built differences, and I think that is a key factor when comparing Westfield residuals to C******m residuals. However, I didn't buy my cars for their residual value and I think anyone who does, no matter what flavour of Se7en it is, doesn't quite get it... Quote
deadscoob Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 Martin, £35kish? How much extra is the "ish" ? And for an Ultima, wouldn't you say 420hp is not exactly high spec? 500+ hp is high spec imo. Although 420 I guess is adequate Quote
Westfieldman Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 the Duratec, which is fast becoming the engine to have Seen the light Started saving up then? Quote
Luke_Eliasz Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 Well i was watching 5th gear last night, and it showed the large funny reporter going to an amature race meating. It was with Catheram, you payed £15,000 ( i think it was that not sure), and you got a Catheram (sorry can't remember which model) and you were entered into 2 amature race events. Also included was training which got you a racing license. I know all that stuff was included, but the price i'm not sure of, i'm sure it was either £15,000 or something near that. Quote
Blatman Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 the Duratec, which is fast becoming the engine to have Seen the light Started saving up then? No, and no.... Quote
peterg Posted September 1, 2004 Posted September 1, 2004 Luke, that's the 'Caterh*m Academy' I know of someone who did it (finished 2nd in that year's championship). You pay around £15k and get entries for (IIRC) 2 hillclimbs, 4 sprints and 2 circuit races - what you don't get is - a trailer, race overalls & helmet etc, fuel or accommodation so you can easily add £10k to that however, you get to build a car, learn how to fiddle with it and can always sell it at a reasonable figure afterwards Academy website here Quote
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